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Jager
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01-08-2007, 06:41 AM
Post subject: Tough spot PF 200 bbs deep 3 way
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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The initial reraiser and I have a wonderful history together, basically he is the lightest 3 better Ive seen I know I am well ahead of his range.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO ($369.30)
Button ($472.90)
SB ($372.40)
BB ($80.80)
Hero ($433.70)
MP ($260.40)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q , Q .
Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, Button raises to $24, SB calls $23, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero ???
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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What do you know about the SB?
For what it's worth, I can't see folding here, but I would check a lot of flops because I want to see what the SB does.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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SB is a 24/20 betting fool
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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wow that sucks...I might just pay for info and 4bet pre flop, especially if the button is capable of bluffing all in post flop.
if he's more likely to give a bluff up after one stab, then I'd rather just call and check most flops like fnord wrote.
not totally sure though, just what I thought at first...pretty tough spot for sure.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Button is LanderD, if that helps. He is more than capable of not only bluffing all in, but calling all ins with stuff like T8o.
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
betting fool
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Can you be more specific?
How much does he figure to be tightening up his range in this spot?
Still, given our relative position and the chance to hit-up the button for a juicy c-bet into a bloated pot, I'm inclined to play a flop. Although it sucks all the times we fold the best hand on an Axx flop.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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He raises 20% and cbets most flops. He seems willing to fold. My thought process here was that the button is reraising light, and the SB doesn't have AA/KK or he would have 4 bet, so maybe AK, AQ, TT, JJ, or even lower PP because we are all so deep. Why let these people see a flop???
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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eww sux that SB is deepish as well.
With no read on SB I make it 85ish here and fold to a push from SB. Most of the time though you have the best hand here based on description of light 3-better.
If you think you have an edge postflop there's nothing wrong with flat-calling
Grossest situation would be for you to pop to 85ish then gasp in horror as both villains call.
pushing could actually be a very sexy line here when it comes back to you. If you figure SB has AA/KK almost never then you might get a hilarious call AI preflop from 1010/JJ...
edit : just read your SB read and based on that I think not repopping here is criminal. Also I think pushing is awesome since it's soooo unlikely you're up against AA/KK. But that might just be crazy talk...
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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typical stars tools 
Im looking at the deep money and thinking another raise wouldnt be horrible considering we expect to be well ahead despite the money in the pot. Saying that we can play our hand ABC style by calling and checking in the dark looking for info.
Edit: pushing looks interesting.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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given that lander is the threebetter i think 4bet/fold is probably optimal.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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So you guys are saying that maybe I should...
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO ($369.30)
Button ($472.90)
SB ($372.40)
BB ($80.80)
Hero ($433.70)
MP ($260.40)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q.
Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, Button raises to $24, SB calls $23, 1 fold, Hero raises to $433.7, Button folds, SB calls $348.40 (All-In).
Flop: ($832.10) 6, 9, 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: ($832.10) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($832.10) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Final Pot: $832.10
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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that is awful, you are supposed to make it 72 and fold to a push
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Hero reraises to $80 and picks up a bunch of dead money.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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ha, nice, didn't think of that option but it makes some sense now.
so, results???
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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well i'm guessing the SB actually called with a lesser hand, like AKs. But i still hate the play.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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wow... that push was pretty bad.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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Harry
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 722
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Way too deep to push imo.
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PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Make sure if your new to this thread to read all psots. Playinig deep is something I have little experience with, so I am still learning. Based on my reads I felt as though I had the best hand, and was comfortable losing if the button had AA/KK.
SB had AA...
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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ouch. I bet this will work out some of the time, but ya, a pot size 4bet probably would save you a lot of bb.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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On a different note, i think the SB should have 4-bet.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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I agree. He probably figured jager would fold and he could stack-a-donk vs button, or something. but that's damn risky 200bb deep.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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I have 2600 hands against the button, mostly from 100. It is a regular occurance for us to battle preflop. I now have 1800 hands with SB, and he still seems solid I can't tell you why he didn't 4 bet here, but it messed me up.
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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yea, when you are 200bb deep, QQ vs AA isn't a cooler
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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go stars tools. This guy obviously knows nothing about poker.
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