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Fnord
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10-31-2008, 09:39 AM
Post subject: At a total loss on how to play this flop
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Cold call is from a TAggy sort who isn't shy about putting lots of money into the pot if he has or can take the betting lead. UTG is FoS, positionally aware (that I should give him credit for a hand lolz) and probably chasing losses.
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($200.00)
Hero ($378.15)
BTN ($425.70)
SB ($471.30)
BB ($952.85)
Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is CO  
UTG raises to $6, Hero raises to $20, BTN calls $20, 2 folds, UTG folds
Flop:    ($49, 2 players)
Hero ????
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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28. what happens next?
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Yeah I'd bet because all aces are going to call you or raise, and all non aces are folding, but you ain't getting value of them anyway.
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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Yeah got to Cbet there. What happened next?
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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I can't see how this is anything other than bet til all the money is in the middle. The only hand you are afraid of is AA and there is only 1 combination of that hand. Have you ever seen villain 4bet cold with any hands? What about cold call a 3bet? How much have you been 3betting?
In the absence of a read, I think I plan to get as much value from AK as possible if you think he'll overplay his 1 pair hand without the initiative.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Cold call is from a TAggy sort who isn't shy about putting lots of money into the pot if he has or can take the betting lead.
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let him take the lead. We're ahead of his range I'd say and not really afraid of him outdrawing us on this board...
Standard would be just a bet, but I can see merit in checking here against this opponent if he's willing to put more money in betting himself, then calling down
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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If he's the type that would put you on KK/QQ if you c/c here and then try bombing you off it on later streets, then I don't mind c/c here with any good Ax sometimes.
IF he's more likely to bluff raise spazz out, then I'd just lead. I'd probably lead here mostly.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Isn't this like QQ or such a pretty absurd % of the time?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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If we're betting I like nutsinho's bet sizing, but given your read a check proabably gets us more value.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Isn't this like QQ or such a pretty absurd % of the time?
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yeah exactly. you guys saying check really think this guy is just going to go bombs away for 3 streets with a hand like QQ here to get us off KK if we check? I don't think this is the case, and I think he will at least call a bet especially if its only like half pot or so. I think checking the turn might be a viable option since you would be putting heaps of pressure on tt-qq if you bet both the flop and turn, he will vtown himself with ak, and now that the pot is a bunch bigger he does have more incentive to spazz out with a hand w/ showdown value if he thinks he has large fold equity vs slightly better hands.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Alternatively I think we could just bet like 1/3 to 1/4 pot on every street because his range is so weak and the board yields such a WA/WB scenario. I guess there are certain situations where we have a nut hand but do best to try to get less than all the money in and this looks like it is one of them.
Also I would like to throw in that if we got raised on the flop I think its a clear call, not reraise. I dont think hes super likely to raise AK this deep so he probably either has a set or is trying to outplay us if he raises our flop lead. If he does raise and try to get a bunch of money in with AK its not like failing to 3bet is going to play out to be a big error anyway.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BigPapi
let him take the lead. We're ahead of his range I'd say and not really afraid of him outdrawing us on this board...
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If Im Fnord I probably have a reasonably aggressive image and it sounds like this guy is thinking enough to find a check massively suspicious. I dont see him betting less than TP if we check here.
Id lead and keep betting until its in.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Yeah, when in doubt I bet the good stuff 'cuz it never can be too much of a mistake. He folded. Really odd spot.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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I like ghey betting if that's your standard in 3bet pots on dry boards
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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He's not folding QQ to one bet on the flop, and thats the best chance we have of winning two bets.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Yea for sure cbet around 32.. He's not gonna do the betting for you with TT-KK... Then u can prolly check turn and vbet river.
Also if he happens to have AQ, AK, u get the money in pretty fast by cbetting
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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kind of a shitty spot to extract since he almost always has TT-QQ
he s unlikely to turn those hands into a bluff so ask yourself which streets he s most likely to calldown on
I'd just bet the flop and not expect to get more value after that
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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