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:'( time to move down on party, still can't adjust

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|~|ypermegachi

05-26-2007, 12:34 AM Post subject: :'( time to move down on party, still can't adjust

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

another losing session. i need to drop down to 50NL on party.

villain is TAG regular (he was at 2 of my tables)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hand 1

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($138.58)
Button ($121.95)
SB ($64.25)
BB ($161.15)
UTG ($100)
Hero ($101.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J

, Q

.
1 fold, Hero raises to $3.5, 1 fold, Button calls $3.50, SB calls $3, 1 fold.

Flop: ($11.50) 3

, 7

, 3

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($11.50) Q

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6.5, Button raises to $15, SB folds, Hero calls $8.50.

River: ($41.50) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button calls $121.95 (All-In), Hero calls $101.05 (All-In) thinking villain is bluffing. and now looking at the pot size relative to going all in, wow i'm dumb. can this ever really be +EV??

Final Pot: $264.50

another TAG, HUD has him at 19/17

Quote:

Originally Posted by hand 2

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($66.54)
CO ($380.25)
Button ($99.50)
SB ($82.65)
Hero ($94.25)
UTG ($108.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, Q

.
3 folds, Button raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $11.5, Button calls $8.

Flop: ($24.50) J

, 7

, T

(2 players)
Hero bets $20, Button calls $99.50 (All-In), Hero calls $93.25 (All-In).

same villain as hand 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by hand 3

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($246.45)
BB ($115.80)
UTG ($81.20)
Hero ($115.75)
Button ($104.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J

, J

.
1 fold, Hero raises to $3.5, 2 folds, BB calls $2.50.

Flop: ($7.50) 6

, 5

, 8

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB raises to $17, Hero calls $11.

Turn: ($41.50) T

(2 players)
BB bets $31, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $72.50

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sauce123

05-26-2007, 03:31 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Dizzy

Posts: 2,405

you have a lot of work to do postflop on ur game i think. Id tighten up until you get a better handle on the basics.

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

Galapogos

05-26-2007, 05:03 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: The Loser's Lounge

Posts: 2,323

I don't think the site is your issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

Harry

05-26-2007, 06:17 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Philly

Posts: 722

I fold turn in hand 1.

PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!

|~|ypermegachi

05-26-2007, 03:40 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

you have a lot of work to do postflop on ur game i think. Id tighten up until you get a better handle on the basics.

i probably do have a lot of work on my postflop, but i'm already running 21/16. are you suggesting i tighten up more preflop or postflop?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

I don't think the site is your issue.

on average, i don't get raised as much on stars. so i usually don't end up in these kinds of situations as much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry

I fold turn in hand 1.

hand 1 was just spew in every sense of the word. i don't know what got over me. i'm not good enough to pull off Negraneau's Theorem.

actually, what i find interesting is hand 2. vs exactly JJ,TT,77, we still have 36% equity. it is $67.5 more for me to call, and the pot is $132. i'm getting 2:1 odds. auto-call is it not?

Galapogos

05-26-2007, 03:58 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Location: The Loser's Lounge

Posts: 2,323

Quote:

Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

I don't think the site is your issue.

on average, i don't get raised as much on stars. so i usually don't end up in these kinds of situations as much.

Yeah but adjusting into being a call station isn't going to make you a winning player. You've already identified hand #1 as spew.

For Hand #2, you can't put him on only that range (JJ,TT,77) and say it's a profitable call. He does this with a whole lot of other hands that have you smoked. Essentially what it comes down to, is you're chasing a Q high flush on a monotone flop for a bad price. That is very not good.

Hand #3 is fine. He definately has it in his head you call light so I seriously doubt he's making a move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

|~|ypermegachi

05-26-2007, 04:08 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

For Hand #2, you can't put him on only that range (JJ,TT,77) and say it's a profitable call. He does this with a whole lot of other hands that have you smoked. Essentially what it comes down to, is you're chasing a Q high flush on a monotone flop for a bad price. That is very not good.

what are these hands?

we're getting odds vs a made straight with 87.
we're getting odds vs a made set.
we're getting odds vs an overpair.

we're really only behind if someone has an overpair AND they have Kh/Ah. or if they have Kh/Ah and they pair the board.

btw, i'm not only chasing the flush. K gives me the straight. A/Q are also possible outs.

Galapogos

05-26-2007, 05:38 PM

#8 (permalink)

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I guess you'd have to run a pokerstove range to decide if it's the right call then if you think it really is a good call. From my experience though, I just don't think it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

|~|ypermegachi

05-26-2007, 05:49 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

I guess you'd have to run a pokerstove range to decide if it's the right call then if you think it really is a good call. From my experience though, I just don't think it is.

the problem with stove is that it's really difficult to use if there's already a flop and your equity is highly dependent on the opponent's suits.

i might as well post some of the stove simulations i did:

vs sets
Hand 0: 36.162% 36.16% 00.00% 3222 0.00 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 63.838% 63.84% 00.00% 5688 0.00 { JJ-TT, 77 }

vs straight
Hand 0: 41.313% 41.31% 00.00% 6544 0.00 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 58.687% 58.69% 00.00% 9296 0.00 { 98s, 98o }

vs overpairs
Hand 0: 33.569% 33.27% 00.30% 3952 36.00 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 66.431% 66.13% 00.30% 7856 36.00 { QQ+ }

vs pwnage
Hand 0: 09.343% 07.68% 01.67% 76 16.50 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 90.657% 88.99% 01.67% 881 16.50 { AhKs }

vs less pwnage
Hand 0: 12.525% 10.71% 01.82% 106 18.00 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 87.475% 85.66% 01.82% 848 18.00 { AdKh }

vs pair + higher flush draw
Hand 0: 20.354% 19.90% 00.45% 197 4.50 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 79.646% 79.19% 00.45% 784 4.50 { AhJc }

vs flush
Hand 0: 28.990% 28.99% 00.00% 287 0.00 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 71.010% 71.01% 00.00% 703 0.00 { 3h2h }

vs drawing dead
no simulation needed...

aislephive

05-28-2007, 07:12 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Bet flop in hand 1, I'd fold turn and river is obv gross.

Hand 2 is fine I think.

Hand 3 is interesting, Turn fold looks good but I sometimes would peel again.

griffey24

05-28-2007, 07:42 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

hand 1: yah, these kind of overbets are rarely bluffs. I'd imagine you were shown 77.

hand 2: I'm not sure about this call. Its close for sure. I'd feel a lot better about it if we had the Ah here, instead of just the Kh. Cause I can see a hand like KhJ or AhJ pushing here as well, and you're in deep against those hands.

hand 3: I soometimes peel off the turn. depends on the villain, and how he plays draws. A bare 7 could be check raising that flop. Your spade could be good if another spade comes. But a fold is fine here as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

cardsman1992

05-28-2007, 07:59 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,065

Until your postflop game is straightened out, dump JQoff.

No way does he not have a pair of queens with a bad kicker beat. Fold turn.

Hand 2 is an easy flop fold IMO. Stacking off with the third nut draw is not goot.

Hand 3 is okay. I have to wonder what he's raising me with on the flop but turn fold is good.

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jyms

05-29-2007, 12:31 AM

#13 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,837

Quote:

Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

you have a lot of work to do postflop on ur game i think. Id tighten up until you get a better handle on the basics.

i probably do have a lot of work on my postflop, but i'm already running 21/16. are you suggesting i tighten up more preflop or postflop?

I think you'd be better running in or around 17/13. It'll help with the tougher decisions and still let you play the tougher hands from good positions but I'd look to drop a lot of hands UTG or in MP, play the blinds as you feel comfortable but I'd run 11/11 or less from those two spots. open up when your more comfortable.

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