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Poker ForumShort-Handed NL Hold'em

thin value bet

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  1. #1

    Default thin value bet

    Villain is this hand is a relatively new reg with nitty stats 17/14/4.7 but he seems rather good and has soul read me pretty hard once or twice. I've been very aggro raising preflop a lot and betting postflop in lots of spots. He's capable of making light call-downs for example this hand we played yesterday:

    $2.5/$5 No Limit Holdem
    5 players
    Converted at weaktight.com

    Stacks:
    UTG ($236.50)
    CO ($497.50)
    BTN ($485.00)
    SB ($514.40)
    Hero ($533.50)

    Pre-flop: ($7.50, 5 players) Hero is BB
    2 folds, BTN raises to $15, 1 fold, Hero calls $10

    Flop: ($32.50, 2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets $20, Hero raises to $62, BTN calls $42

    Turn: ($156.50, 2 players)
    Hero bets $120, BTN calls $120

    River: ($396.50, 2 players)
    Hero bets $336.50, BTN calls $288

    Final Pot: $1069.50
    Hero shows:
    BTN shows:

    BTN wins $969.50 ( won +$484.50 )
    Hero lost -$533.50

    Here is the hand in question:

    $2.5/$5 No Limit Holdem
    6 players
    Converted at weaktight.com

    Stacks:
    UTG ($576.15)
    UTG+1 ($692.30)
    Hero ($750.75)
    BTN ($618.75)
    SB ($593.65)
    BB ($583.00)

    Pre-flop: ($7.50, 6 players) Hero is CO
    1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $15, Hero calls $15, 3 folds

    Flop: ($37.50, 2 players)
    UTG+1 bets $25, Hero calls $25

    Turn: ($87.50, 2 players)
    UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $66, UTG+1 calls $66

    River: ($219.50, 2 players)
    UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $165,
  2. #2
    i think he has to call you down with A high a decent ammount for this to work. i think his line with any pp 55+ would be to c/c you down so theres only 2 of them that you beat. he can also have a 10 or 4 sometimes. so yeah if you think he takes this line and calls down with ace high a lot then it might be ok but otherwise no.
  3. #3
    damn that's pretty sick...

    i'm more concerned with showing down, so i'd check behind on the turn to try and keep the pot small.

    i don't think there's much value in betting....and yes it's quite thin if there is EV....i just hate the thought of getting check-shoved here.
  4. #4
    I really am not good enough to take me really seriously about more advanced spots, but here's a try:

    I guess if you think villain views you as spewy after history then hand 2 is ok. Your range is so polarized that he can call you with lower PP's or a even A high probably then.
    On the other hand, without a spewy image, I would think villain knows that this is a pretty bad spot to be bluffing at for you.
    Question: Am I right he can have 99-AA here as well?


    Fwiw I think the first hand you posted is a really bad spot to continue on turn and especially river, even more with your aggressive image.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
    damn that's pretty sick...

    i'm more concerned with showing down, so i'd check behind on the turn to try and keep the pot small.

    i don't think there's much value in betting....and yes it's quite thin if there is EV....i just hate the thought of getting check-shoved here.
    I agree that checking back on the turn is a reasonable play aswell. I feel however that in this spot I very often have the best hand and I'm hardly ever getting check/raised.

    I've never getting check/shoved on the turn. Any tens in his range just couldn't take the risk that I'm going to check/behind.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by minSim
    I really am not good enough to take me really seriously about more advanced spots, but here's a try:
    Me either most of the time
    Quote Originally Posted by minSim
    I guess if you think villain views you as spewy after history then hand 2 is ok. Your range is so polarized that he can call you with lower PP's or a even A high probably then.
    Yep this is what I'm thinking, I think that the conditions are pretty well set up for me to merge my range here.
    Quote Originally Posted by minSim
    Question: Am I right he can have 99-AA here as well?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by minSim
    Fwiw I think the first hand you posted is a really bad spot to continue on turn and especially river, even more with your aggressive image.
    Agree, I spew.
  7. #7
    Hand 1 is a bad board texture to triple.

    Hand 2 I would bet the turn and check behind the river, especially cause one of the very likely hands that you beat just got there. I don't think his calling range is wide enough to extract value from.
  8. #8
    nutsinho's Avatar
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    flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
    I like betting turn for value planning to check back river. I'm not one to shy away from thin vbetting opportunities but I think this one is -ev.
    My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
  9. #9
    yeah i think it's good
  10. #10
    seems pretty bad
  11. #11
    no

    imo
    when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

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