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Standard hands, betsizing talk

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minSim

04-10-2010, 01:50 PM Post subject: Standard hands, betsizing talk

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Maybe just for some review, but generally I think betsizing isn't being talked about a lot.
I'll just post some hands with my thoughtprocess regarding betsizing. If you have some thoughts, please post some.

I have a pretty complete betsizing plan for the flop. As a cbet I use standard betsizes based on boardtexture. In a some rare situations I add 1 or 2 bb if I'm valuebetting and/or 1-2 less when bluffing. I often add 1-2 bb when I'm OOP. (any comments on this are welcome as well)
Generally on the turn and river I have way less of a general betsizing strategy compared to flop, which I think is something I can improve a lot on.

I'm also particularly interested in some stuff about betting bigger because of the implications on future street (if you feel you have on edge on later streets/can steal enough pots and when you know you can valuebet next streets a lot)

#1 - villain 19/14/1.2 3bet 6% over 86hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($21.40)
SB ($50)
BB ($51.40)
Hero (UTG) ($53.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

, A

Hero bets $1.50, 2 folds, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) K

, 3

, 10

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB calls $2.50

On a board like this with 1-2 high cards, a FD and gutshots possible, I always bet 3/4 psb.

Turn: ($8.25) 2

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5.50, BB calls $5.50

In this hand, I bet 2/3 psb on the turn because;
- I want a call from FD's and still want to charge them enough
- Kx is definately gonna call
- I want Tx to call or a hard decision to fold.
- Gutshots are gonna fold, but well I can't have it all.
My question is should I go bigger on the turn, assuming it's more likely I'm folding Tx, but charging Kx and FD's harder?
(also knowing that I'm gonna be valuebetting the river a lot vs Kx and will get called <-- I have a feeling this is important)

River: ($19.25) 2

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $13

2/3 psb again, pretty much without a big plan besides getting called by Kx.

#2 - Villain unknown. Flop call is discussable, but I'd like to focus on betsizing.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($41.95)
SB ($51.50)
BB ($30)
UTG ($50)
Hero (MP) ($50)
CO ($8)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 3

, 3

1 fold, Hero bets $1.50, 3 folds, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) 4

, 8

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB raises to $5, Hero calls $3

On a low paired board I usually go 1/2 - 2/3 psb, often depending on it having a FD or SD possibly.

Turn: ($13.25) Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($13.25) 3

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $10, BB calls $10

3/4 psb, more or less without a plan. Ofcourse I'm rarely getting called, does that make it more a <1/2 or full pot (or overbet) spot?

#3 - Villain 27/7 over only 15 hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($53.90)
Hero (UTG) ($50)
MP ($69.70)
Button ($47.50)
SB ($52.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J

, J

Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, Button calls $1.50, 2 folds

Flop: ($3.75) 2

, 5

, J

(2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button calls $3

This is a situation I add some bb's to my cbet size because I'm valuebetting and am OOP (and I think villains range is quite inelastic).

Turn: ($9.75) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $7.50, Button calls $7.50

Another turn spot I use a size not while not really thinking about it. I gues it's like:
- This board didn't hit me well and I have a monster
- Both me and villain can have a decent amount of draws
- I'm OOP
- Let's go 3/4psb

(2/3 - 3/4 psb's feel like they are often just those in between sizings that are fine almost but also not optimal a lot)

River: ($24.75) 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $15

A 3/5 psb, again without much of a plan other than hoping villain has Jx or has 9x/bluff when he shoves. Is this a situation to c/r as the PFR? Or bet small to induce?

#4 Villain 28/23/3.7 over 163 hands, no actual reads.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($65)
SB ($47.75)
BB ($58.85)
UTG ($64.50)
MP ($52.25)
Hero (CO) ($50.75)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9

, 9

2 folds, Hero bets $1.50, Button calls $1.50, 1 fold, BB calls $1

Flop: ($4.75) 4

, 9

, Q

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3.50, Button calls $3.50, 1 fold

3/4 psb in this 3way flop with a lot of straight draws, AND I'm beating TP.
I would go bigger if there was a FD as well.
Especially in situations where you beat TP, is there merit in betting bigger (like 5/6 psb) to build a pot to get even more value on later streets? (assuming you'll fold a little more worse hands)

Turn: ($11.75) 5

(2 players)
Hero bets $8

Board didn't change, I bet 2/3 psb to get a call from Qx, TT/JJ and JT and give 9x or gutshot+over a decision. Again, can I go bigger because Qx-JT are gonna call anyway, JJ/TT probably and gutshot+overs aren't?

#5 - Villain is a standard small stakes TAG
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($76.50)
SB ($52.05)
BB ($50.45)
UTG ($51.40)
Hero (MP) ($50.75)
CO ($49.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A

, A

1 fold, Hero bets $1.75, 1 fold, Button calls $1.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($4.25) 7

, 3

, 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button calls $3

A little bigger then standard as raised UTG (strong range) and OOP.
Question is should I make up a plan to get allin on the river vs villains overpairs already? (5/6, 5/6, shove)
Or do you think it´s too obvious as I can´t really do that with my whole range here?

Turn: ($10.25) 5

(2 players)
Hero bets $8, Button calls $8

Big bet, plan is only pointed towards getting maximum value from villains overpairs now.

River: ($26.25) 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $21

It sucks to not be able to shove here

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Mr. Diamond

04-12-2010, 01:29 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2010

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Posts: 237

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hand 1:
I'm betting little less on the turn (maybe 5) to get call from T. I think he will not have many FD, because he is so tight and you have Ac
- on the river I'm probably betting 14,5-16 or so, because it will be very hard for him to fold a K
- flop is fine

- I will post my opinions on other hands later, because this post is so long and I have no time now

minSim

04-13-2010, 08:30 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Yeah sorry for the long post. I assume that's also the reasons this thread isn't getting any responses.

I find it hard to touch on a subject in a more wider way then just 1 situation, without a) using a lot of words, or b) getting unpractical.
I was hoping the HH's illustrated some standard situations pretty well and therefor we're a nice way to keep the discussion focussed.

I'm still hoping there will be some more responses, if not I might try to split things up in just 1 HH threads.

Mr. Diamond

04-13-2010, 04:41 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Posts: 237

I started discussion thread too. I think my thread could be very inspirational - how to work with board texture, plans on turn, etc. - but it is without response. Link to thread:

DB vs c/r

Mr. Diamond

04-13-2010, 04:49 PM

#5 (permalink)

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hand 2:
I would fold flop definitely. And on the river I would bet something total stupid like 2,75 (maybe less), because he has nothing 99,99% of the time - so I would hope to get call from Ac

Mr. Diamond

04-13-2010, 04:57 PM

#6 (permalink)

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hand 3:
Flop and turn seems fine to me. I would probably check/call river, because I think TT, JT, etc. is folding. On exactly this board I think he will not have two pairs often (no value in betting) and he probably will not have a set. So I would check and hope he will bluff missed clubs

Mr. Diamond

04-13-2010, 05:02 PM

#7 (permalink)

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hand 4:
I would probably play it same

btw: I like this thread. GJ

Mr. Diamond

04-13-2010, 05:16 PM

#8 (permalink)

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hand 5:
I think after he calls turn, he has TT, JJ and maybeeee 99. I'm not absolutely sure, that he is calling this river bet - this bet is so big and your perceived range are simply AA, aces and maybe rockets. So I would bet something like 14-16 or so - but I'm not sure

minSim

04-13-2010, 06:31 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Diamond

I started discussion thread too. I think my thread could be very inspirational - how to work with board texture, plans on turn, etc. - but it is without response. Link to thread:

DB vs c/r

I did my best

surviva316

04-14-2010, 07:38 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,625

surviva316 will become famous soon enough

tl;dr most of it, but just thought i'd throw my hat in the ring for hand 2:

obv fold flop, but regarding betsizing, i'd bet the river smaller because it will make his whole range react in a favorable way. most importantly slow-ish played 8's will be far more likely to raise a 1/2 PSB than they will this bet sizing, in which case we have a very very good chance of getting his stack. then obv, unknowns are more likely to bluff catch/call with mediocre hands to a smaller bet which is pretty much the rest of his range (other than occasional Q that's in his bluffing range).

EDIT: just read hand 3, so i'll comment on that. thinking in hand 3 seems very level 1/bad. things i would be considering are the strength of his range vs the strength of my perceived range (obv villain is a fish, so he's not thinking too deeply about our range, but there's still a difference between an 852r board and a AKT monotone board), how much do i need to bet to get it in on 3 streets without leaving an overshove on the river, how will a bigger/smaller size effect how he plays his range (will he raise with a higher frequency, float with a higher frequency, think i'm FoS and call down 3 streets with second pair with a higher frequency, etc).

for that reason, betting an amount that isn't big enough to get it in in 3 streets without a very big river bet, yet big enough to make our hand look strong on a board where villain has a very very weak range doesn't seem preferable. i think if i had a bad image, i'd prolly go smaller and let him do something stupid like call down 3 streets light or spazz out, and if my image were cleaner, i'd just bet like 4 bucks on the flop and try to cooler him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

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texa8

04-15-2010, 04:16 AM

#11 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Melbourne Australia

Posts: 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by surviva316

and if my image were cleaner, i'd just bet like 4 bucks on the flop and try to cooler him.

seems like a bit of overkill with top set on this flop... asuming the man has a clean image here.

that being said two flush draws, straight draws and villian liking his hand on the flop leads me to bet 9 on this turn... this leaves villian with $34 and a $27.75 pot. not as gross a overshove as before..

dunno. just my thoughts

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