|
Jager
|
02-13-2007, 10:06 AM
Post subject: Squeeze attempt gets into trouble
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
MP is 20/4,CO is 20/0. I have played a lot with MP, he hates getting squeezed he has folded every time I have reraised him.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($100)
MP ($126.35)
CO ($172.65)
Hero ($142.75)
SB ($214.40)
BB ($101.55)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A , Q .
1 fold, MP raises to $4, CO calls $4, Hero raises to $18, 2 folds, MP folds, CO calls $14.
Flop: ($41.50) K , 9, 9 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $28, CO calls $28.
Turn: ($97.50) A (2 players)
CO checks, Hero ??
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
c/f what could you possibly be ahead of (or get to fold). It would take a sick read that he had KK and put you on AA I think. He can't have anything more than KK+/AK here
Why does raising a 20/4 work? His raisng range is like TT+, AJs+, AKo. Is it just because this one player is bad?
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
check, see what he does on riv
|
|
|
|
silu73
|
|
Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
|
|
I would check the turn. Call any normal bet on river and/or bet if checked to. A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.
|
|
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by silu_nz
A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.
|
This is the bottom half of a 4% PFR range. Does it really make sense that these are the hands he's calling a 3bet with?
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
Jager
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by silu_nz
A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.
|
This is the bottom half of a 4% PFR range. Does it really make sense that these are the hands he's calling a 3bet with? |
You guys should note that the 4% PFR folded, I only mentioned as to not get flamed for reraising a 4% PFRer preflop. The CO stayed in the hand.
|
|
|
|
Rondavu
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
|
|
This is an absolute CHECK spot. You lose less money when you're behind, and make more against hands you're ahead of, by encouraging them to stay. Why is this the case? The only possible draws are VERY unlikely.
|
|
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
|
|
My guess is JJ/TT
What is the best line against these hands in this spot. Is it checking to induce a bluff on the end or is it betting hoping he still believes you are FOS.
The turn Ace may have one you the hand but it probably killed all of your action.
|
|
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by silu_nz
A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.
|
This is the bottom half of a 4% PFR range. Does it really make sense that these are the hands he's calling a 3bet with? |
You guys should note that the 4% PFR folded, I only mentioned as to not get flamed for reraising a 4% PFRer preflop. The CO stayed in the hand. |
 this is why I don't post in >50NL threads. Please ignore all the posts above.
What a nit to raise 4% and fold, haha.
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
jo
|
|
Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 166
|
|
I think your point still stands swiggidy. I don't understand the logic of trying to squeeze a 4% PFR. Too often it will backfire, even if on this occasion he did happen to fold. I save my squeezes for those that are overly aggressive preflop.
|
|
|
|
IowaSkinsFan
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
i fold this pre, anyone with me? Versus a guy with those stats...
|
|
|
|
Warpe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
i fold this pre, anyone with me? Versus a guy with those stats...
|
Liar
|
|
|
|
nutsinho
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
|
|
fold pf, ez check on turn, ez fold on river if he bets but he wont cause you have him beat unless he has quads
|
|
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
|
|
Jager
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
Why fold Preflop?? Isn't better to try and apply pressure on everyone? The more pressure we apply the more likely they are to make a mistake.
|
|
"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
|
|
nutsinho
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
Why fold Preflop?? Isn't better to try and apply pressure on everyone? The more pressure we apply the more likely they are to make a mistake.
|
OH YEAH THATS RIGHT! SO LETS RAISE/RERAISE EVERY SINGLE HAND WE GET!!!! ZOMG THEY WILL MAKE THE MOST MISTAKES THAT WAY SO WE WIN RIGHT???
|
|
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
|
|
IowaSkinsFan
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
Why fold Preflop?? Isn't better to try and apply pressure on everyone? The more pressure we apply the more likely they are to make a mistake.
|
I personally don't like building a pot where when we get a caller we are almost always beat.
I don't tend to get involved with 20/4. AQ is at the bottom of this guys range.
|
|
|
|
iceit
|
|
02-14-2007, 01:47 AM
Post subject: Re: Squeeze attempt gets into trouble
|
#17 (permalink)
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 28
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
MP is 20/4,CO is 20/0. I have played a lot with MP, he hates getting squeezed he has folded every time I have reraised him.
|
What were you expecting??? You said it yourself, he hates getting squeezed and has folded everytime you reraised him. He called your squeeze play. Your AQ is beat.
|
|
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
02-14-2007, 01:56 AM
Post subject: Re: Squeeze attempt gets into trouble
|
#18 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iceit
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
MP is 20/4,CO is 20/0. I have played a lot with MP, he hates getting squeezed he has folded every time I have reraised him.
|
What were you expecting??? You said it yourself, he hates getting squeezed and has folded everytime you reraised him. He called your squeeze play. Your AQ is beat. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by silu_nz
A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.
|
This is the bottom half of a 4% PFR range. Does it really make sense that these are the hands he's calling a 3bet with? |
You guys should note that the 4% PFR folded, I only mentioned as to not get flamed for reraising a 4% PFRer preflop. The CO stayed in the hand. |
If you're trying to make me feel better it worked.
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
benny999
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
|
|
i agree with the flames on reraising the 4% pfr guy...especially if he's getting ready to take a stand or something. if you need to, I'd rather do it with a PP.
I dunno, I might call pf, but folding is probably better.
|
|
|
|
Jager
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
Alright so if we don't reraise with AQ, then what are we reraising with? QQ+ AK? If this is our only range then he wins, he gets to play his game, in his comfort zone, on his terms. Do we never reraise in this spot cause he only raises 4%? Do we expose our AA in this spot, to a multiway pot because he only raises 4% and the caller never raises? If we call with any hand he raises do we fold to his flop bet everytime we don't spike a monster? If I am wrong then someone tell me, but if I am not looking to exploit every player at my table then what am I doing there?
|
|
"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
|
|
nutsinho
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
|
|
If someone raises 4% over a large sample, you generally shouldnt be reraising them too often. Given the read that this one likes to fold the low end of this range to reraises, you should be reraising suited connectors sometimes but not AQo. AQo SUCKS vs his range.
|
|
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
Alright so if we don't reraise with AQ, then what are we reraising with? QQ+ AK? If this is our only range then he wins, he gets to play his game, in his comfort zone, on his terms. Do we never reraise in this spot cause he only raises 4%?
|
You got it. Don't reraise him ever. He doesn't win. He loses, because u read his hands like a book and play implied odds. You might need to reraise him with QQ+ sometimes just to isolate him, but in generally i wouldn't rr him.
|
|
|
|
IowaSkinsFan
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
If this is our only range then he wins
|
Yep he wins 4% of the time, we win a lot more. You can cold call pp's here and Sc's maybe for a lot of value.
|
|
|
|
benny999
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
|
|
ya, exploit that he has too predictable of a range and probably is weak tight by playing hands with implied odds well post flop.
i wouldn't reraise Axo (except maybe AK) because of bad implied odds vs his call range.
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
at 100nl i doubt you have enough stats on him to be accurate so i always reraise him here. if you knew he was that tight i would never fold anyway....you have button!!
|
|
|
|
IowaSkinsFan
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gabe
at 100nl i doubt you have enough stats on him to be accurate so i always reraise him here. if you knew he was that tight i would never fold anyway....you have button!!
|
gabe lol he would've probably told us if it was a small sample size.
And also you probably spew a bit on looseness preflop anyway.
|
|
|
|
swiggidy
|
|
02-14-2007, 05:10 AM
Post subject: Re: Squeeze attempt gets into trouble
|
#27 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
I have played a lot with MP, he hates getting squeezed he has folded every time I have reraised him.
|
Does this mean nothing to anyone? When someone makes a good move everyone is like "oh snap, reads >> hands". But then here Jager's (seemingly solid) read is kicked away with "don't play against him".
Since his hand range is so narrow isn't calling a raise with almost any 2 +eV (assuming he's not also uber-tight post-flop)?
|
|
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
|
|
IowaSkinsFan
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
oh thanks swig didn't see that. Yeah assuming you haven't been out of line squeze here with a lot of hands. but without that read i stick to my analysis.
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
And also you probably spew a bit on looseness preflop anyway.
|
lol???? thanks, next time i play ill remember your advice
|
|
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
I think gabe is partly right but partly not. I'm never folding here on teh button with AQ, but I hate to say its always a reraise.
Personally, I think checking on the turn is the best play here in most circumstances on such a draw-less board. Just hope he doesn't push the river.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
Irisheyes
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
|
|
easy pf fold
|
|
|
|
Warpe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
easy pf fold
|
On the button?!!?...phfft
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
|
|
|
|
Warpe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
|
|
building sweaters?
|
|
|
|
jo
|
|
Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 166
|
|
That seems pretty obscure gabe.
I'll help translate:
|
|
|
|
Genitruc
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
|
|
Haven't read the thread but imo at this point I'd check the turn and push any non-K river.
|
|
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
|
|
IowaSkinsFan
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
And also you probably spew a bit on looseness preflop anyway.
|
lol???? thanks, next time i play ill remember your advice |
It's not my advice.
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jo
That seems pretty obscure gabe.
I'll help translate:
|
ship it
|
|
|
|
nutsinho
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
|
|
just because someone doesnt call with AQo here doesnt mean he is a nit. If I had those stats available when I played I would be folding AQ0 here but calling with 74s. I'd need more reads than the ones given to profitably play AQo in this spot.
|
|
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
the more i look at this the more i think fold/raise. I think i fold here 60% the time, raise the rest, never call.
|
|
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
it's not like we're playing from the SB, we have position.. nothing wrong with a call. If the original raiser was more of your typical 20/15 type player, a squeeze is pretty much standard with such a big hand. As played I think I'd normally squeeze or call the vast majority of the time, maybe once in a blue moon I'd muck but only because of the guy's stats.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
Linear Mode
