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benny999
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01-12-2007, 10:54 PM
Post subject: spewtastic or ok?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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do you think this is ok or a lot worse compared to just calling the flop and folding to a turn bet? or raising flop, and taking a free card on turn?
villain is a pretty standard tag, definitely aggro post flop. I think he sees me as similar, but we don't have much history at all.
his calls were pretty fast, and I figured he would've raised me on the flop or turn with a legit hand, so I put him on AQ at best on the river.
Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1./$2.
5 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $168
Hero: $205.20
Button: $185.60
SB: $172
BB: $246.65
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with 7 A
UTG folds, Hero raises to $7, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.
Flop: Q 8 9 ($16, 2 players)
SB bets $10, Hero raises to $30, SB calls.
Turn: K ($76, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $35, SB calls.
River: 2 ($146, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero is all-in $133.2
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Slash
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 181
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After he calls your flop raise, I think I would take the free card on the turn. But as played why would he cold call the turn bet after he checked with the K coming if he does have A-Q he's willing to goto the showdown with it. The 2 isnt going too scare him so im pretty sure he called.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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this is a big spew IMO.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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so you're saying he calls the river with a pair of Q, or else was slowplaying on this board?
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Slash
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by benny999
so you're saying he calls the river with a pair of Q, or else was slowplaying on this board?
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Whatever he has i dont think he's folding it.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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You expect a decent player to believe that you'd bet less than half pot on the turn, with a legitimate hand on THAT board? Also, the stack sizes on the turn are really awkward which means the size of your flop raise might not be good. What do people think about raising to $45 on the flop and then either pushing the turn or checking behind, depending on whether you think he'll fold?
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Ravageur
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Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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maybe he folds a lot of hands on the river, but I think i like taking a free card after he calls your repop on the flop. I don't see what the turn changes really that will make him fold (maybe you push him off QJ or Q10 on the turn?). Also you can still get a lot of the monies in on the river if you make your flush at this point.
I don't think the river push is as bad as people are saying especially given the read that he's not a donk.
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Family Cruise IMO
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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good point about my flop/turn bet sizes mcatdog - didn't really realize he might think I'm weak with a smaller bet on the turn.
I thought he would actually see it as strength since he is repping a weak hand, so smaller bets would get better flop/turn value if I have a monster.
I think I agree just taking a free card on the turn will work out better, since he could have been setting up a turn c/r...but it seemed so tempting to define his hand more (especially if he just check-calls the turn), and set up a river shove.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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That's about your worst possible play on the turn. You either need to hammer it or check behind. After he calls you on the flop, you can't count on him folding to a half-potish bet and if he shoves you've put yourself in a spot where you hate to either call or fold.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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I knew he wouldn't fold the turn...
my intent was to rep a hand, get more info, and set up a river shove.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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You tricked him into making a big mistake, why are we putting the better part of a buy-in into the pot to try to induce a bigger mistake?
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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Turn bet is terrible. Either check or bet close to pot. I would just check and take a free card. It REALLY sucks to get c/r'ed on this turn.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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this is a fun play but I think he folds more often if you bet 80$ unless you've been seen to push very strong hands
only thing I don't like is turn bet-size ; if you really wanted the stacks going in you would've bet closer to pot instead of 35$. If villain is truly thinking deeply he might be suspicious of this.
edit : just read the other replies ; to those saying "he won't fold"... many many "standard" players here will fold AQ or less here since they only beat a bluff.
If you are villain here, what do you put Hero on? benny's turn bet was an obvious mistake but I think he folds out many, many medium-strength hands with his river bet.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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