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Some Big Bets

  
 
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Genitruc
Old 05-06-2007, 06:01 AM     Post subject: Some Big Bets #1 (permalink)  
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 All these hands were played against unremarkable tags (think 22/14/2), nothing special postflop). I check-raise a lot on dry flops but besides that my image is pretty good/solid postflop.

Which ones do you hate the most?

1)

$200 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, May 05, 21:07:24 ET 2007
Table Table 127075 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: blackopc ( $261.73 USD )
Seat 6: HERO ( $296.60 USD )
Seat 2: toffelhelt ( $238.55 USD )
Seat 3: rogge777 ( $221.75 USD )
toffelhelt posts small blind [$1 USD].
rogge777 posts big blind [$2 USD].
HERO posts big blind + dead [$3].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to HERO
HERO checks.
blackopc raises [$8 USD]
toffelhelt folds.
rogge777 folds.
HERO calls [$6 USD]

** Dealing Flop **

HERO checks.
blackopc bets [$14 USD]
HERO raises [$37 USD]
blackopc raises [$61 USD]
HERO is all-In.


2)

$200 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, May 05, 21:21:57 ET 2007
Table Table 127323 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: csuppert ( $113.39 USD )
Seat 3: DonkThis ( $333.10 USD )
Seat 6: alicerussell ( $131.34 USD )
Seat 4: HERO ( $229.20 USD )
Seat 1: tmesoy ( $314.64 USD )
Seat 5: Damirka1 ( $64 USD )
HERO posts small blind [$1 USD].
Damirka1 posts big blind [$2 USD].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to HERO
alicerussell folds.
tmesoy raises [$8 USD]
csuppert calls [$8 USD]
DonkThis folds.
HERO calls [$7 USD]
Damirka1 folds.

** Dealing Flop **

HERO checks.
tmesoy bets [$20 USD]
csuppert folds.
HERO calls [$20 USD]

** Dealing Turn **

HERO bets [$45 USD]
tmesoy calls [$45 USD]

** Dealing River **

HERO is all-In.

3)

$200 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, May 05, 21:29:48 ET 2007
Table Table 127075 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 6: HERO ( $584.20 USD )
Seat 2: toffelhelt ( $244.25 USD )
Seat 5: basmoh ( $198 USD )
Seat 1: ImakeBADcalls ( $197.70 USD )
Seat 3: ZoRQ3N ( $200 USD )
Seat 4: aussiejoe666 ( $202.75 USD )
toffelhelt posts small blind [$1 USD].
ZoRQ3N posts big blind [$2 USD].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to HERO
aussiejoe666 folds.
basmoh folds.
HERO raises [$8 USD]
ImakeBADcalls folds.
toffelhelt folds.
ZoRQ3N calls [$6 USD]

** Dealing Flop **

ZoRQ3N checks.
HERO checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
ZoRQ3N bets [$12 USD]
HERO calls [$12 USD]

** Dealing River **

ZoRQ3N bets [$22 USD]
HERO raises [$56 USD]

4)

$200 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, May 05, 20:50:53 ET 2007
Table Table 127312 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 3: miss_pooli ( $366.35 USD )
Seat 4: MetalCommand ( $315.46 USD )
Seat 5: Arvesynden ( $580.84 USD )
Seat 6: SEXXXXXXYBOI ( $200 USD )
Seat 1: HERO ( $312 USD )
Seat 2: steveko_ ( $200 USD )
SEXXXXXXYBOI posts small blind [$1 USD].
HERO posts big blind [$2 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO
steveko_ folds.
miss_pooli calls [$2 USD]
MetalCommand folds.
Arvesynden folds.
SEXXXXXXYBOI folds.
HERO checks.

** Dealing Flop ***

HERO bets [$4 USD]
miss_pooli raises [$20 USD]
HERO calls [$16 USD]

** Dealing Turn **

HERO checks.
miss_pooli checks.

** Dealing River **

HERO bets [$99 USD]
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 05-06-2007, 06:04 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 1 and 2 are just straight up horrid,
3 sucks
4 is okay.
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c-luvin
Old 05-06-2007, 06:40 AM #3 (permalink)  
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1. people who make this bet arnt capable of folding whatever they are making it with
2. why do you play your hand weak when your strong then strong as soon as you turn weak
3. why are you not c betting but then calling then turn
4. that works i guess
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phantom_lord
Old 05-06-2007, 12:17 PM #4 (permalink)  
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1+2 are horrible.
3. don't like
4. ok i guess
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sauce123
Old 05-06-2007, 03:24 PM #5 (permalink)  
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1) I kinda like it, I mean sometimes he is gonna show up with AA/KK and make a "crying call" and you are going to look like a retard, but then a lot of the time he is going to show up with TT-77 and muck and you look like a genius. The real question here is whether you think he can fold an overpair and some jacks occasionally which I think is possible on this board vs a certain type of opponent. And air is also in his range. So i dont mind it at all.

2) Weird line. I dont mind donking flop either btw and I agree a C/R is too strong. I really like the donk on turn as ur oop and this gets checked thru so often when ur wa and is bet so often when ur wb. River just seems unnecesary/too thin to me unless you have an absolutely unreal crazy image.

3) Betting flop is sooo much better than ur line here and as played the turn call is weak and the river play is just... unnecesary I would say. I mean ur line makes no sense so any half decent tag is gonna look you up with ace high or better imo, which means the only hands you get to fold are the ones you are already beating. So i htink this is really bad.

4) they dont fold here ever unless you open shove. I always think I can C/R here but they still call. the only real way you have to win this hand was to donk turn big and shove river, the overbet i htink is too likely to be called to be +ev but I could be wrong about that as its fine against a select few opponents at 200nl. also, folding the flop is ok, but i wouldnt either.
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benny999
Old 05-07-2007, 12:12 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I pretty much agree with sauce, and think #1 is not too bad either because he'll have air quite a bit too with 3betting you on that flop.
I doubt he folds though if he has a real hand, but it's possible since some do this all the time to "see where they're at"
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 05-07-2007, 01:14 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 Like Sauce and Benny, when i saw that people were ragging on hand 1 i was surprised. I think it's a fine play if you think he can actually fold something.

Hand 2 i don't think he's folding anything that's beating you.

Hand 3 is dumb because of thoughts above... and especially because your raise size is too small.

Hand 4 i like it. You could also just fold the flop though.

I probably hate hand 3 the most.
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griffey24
Old 05-07-2007, 03:27 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 im' gonna join the "not liking hand 1" crew

hand 1 - I don't miiiind the flop, but really, just fold preflop. Why do you wanna be calling a raise, OOP, with a non-suited low connector HU?

hand 2 - I like the flop and turn. I think just check this river. He's definitely showing up here with the backdoor flush some of the time. Check call or check fold the river.. its pretty thin I think.

hand 3 - If villain is passive, I for sure cont bet here. If he's been aggro c/r'ing your cont bets, then maybe its ok to free card yourself for the straight. Either way, the river isn't repping anything so you'll probably get called.

hand 4 - you're getting called here a lot I think. What hands raise this flop and then check this turn? Either a nut flush draw (that got there and is tryin to let you catch up).. or some made hand (two pair/set) trying to pot control. Reads would help here, on how aggro villain is.
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gabe
Old 05-07-2007, 03:41 AM #9 (permalink)  
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only one i hate is the KQ one, that one is by far the worse
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Genitruc
Old 05-07-2007, 03:51 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 thx for replies guys

fwiw these were just the spots that - with one exception (hand 4) - I felt silly about in my 1st P arty session in a long time.

Hand 1 isn't quite as bad as it looks. Calling preflop was a mistake but villain had seens me check-raise quite a bit on dry flops so I was kind of expecting the 3-bet and figured I had decent fold equity.

Hand 2 is very high risk, obviously. I felt villain had a mid pair here after he called the turn (1010, QQ or Jx that hit the turn) so the river bluff was very risky (tough for me to credibly rep a hand).

Hand 3 is a non c-bet for me whenever I feel I'll get bluff-raised or villain's range hit the flop pretty hard. The river raise was only to get him off very weak holdings and missed draws (which I think consist a pretty large part of his range).

Hand 4 is good I think. I was hoping villain would fold a set (actually not being sarcastic).

But basically, these were all plays that were unnecessary.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 05-07-2007, 04:21 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
Hand 3 is dumb because of thoughts above... and especially because your raise size is too small.

I probably hate hand 3 the most.
just want to make sure you saw that.
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c-luvin
Old 05-07-2007, 04:39 AM #12 (permalink)  
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see im ok with hand 3 if your pretty sure he'll DB with a missed draw. otherwise i agree with massimo that your raise is too small because your not folding out anything thats vbetting the river. plus the only thing your really repping is 78 which makes no sense because you would cbet flop with 78.

for the people who liked hand one i just wanna say that his flop 3-bet minraise is a very fishy bet and people who make these kinds of bets arnt capable of making "correct" laydowns so you lose way too much FE becuase of opp. although you did say you had a read so it might be good for this situation.
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Genitruc
Old 05-07-2007, 04:55 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-luvin
see im ok with hand 3 if your pretty sure he'll DB with a missed draw. otherwise i agree with massimo that your raise is too small because your not folding out anything thats vbetting the river. plus the only thing your really repping is 78 which makes no sense because you would cbet flop with 78.

for the people who liked hand one i just wanna say that his flop 3-bet minraise is a very fishy bet and people who make these kinds of bets arnt capable of making "correct" laydowns so you lose way too much FE becuase of opp. although you did say you had a read so it might be good for this situation.
yeah c-luvin there's no way that I could've had a read the villain would always DB with a bluff/draw so hand 3 is useless/spewy.

If I think he's bluffing JQ/J8 I might as well just call... but all of the over + FD spade hands made me try to push him off of those in case he had K high beat.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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blackopc
Old 05-08-2007, 09:47 AM     Post subject: Re: Some Big Bets #14 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
All these hands were played against unremarkable tags (think 22/14/2), nothing special postflop). I check-raise a lot on dry flops but besides that my image is pretty good/solid postflop.

Which ones do you hate the most?

1)

$200 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, May 05, 21:07:24 ET 2007
Table Table 127075 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: blackopc ( $261.73 USD )
Seat 6: HERO ( $296.60 USD )
Seat 2: toffelhelt ( $238.55 USD )
Seat 3: rogge777 ( $221.75 USD )
toffelhelt posts small blind [$1 USD].
rogge777 posts big blind [$2 USD].
HERO posts big blind + dead [$3].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to HERO
HERO checks.
blackopc raises [$8 USD]
toffelhelt folds.
rogge777 folds.
HERO calls [$6 USD]

** Dealing Flop **

HERO checks.
blackopc bets [$14 USD]
HERO raises [$37 USD]
blackopc raises [$61 USD]
HERO is all-In.
Found this tread while putting my name in google.

In this hand i had KK, normally i wont call you after you rereraised allin but i knew my KK was good there. Why? I raised the last 5 hands in a row, remarkebly all those hands where AA/KK/AK/JJ and TT.
I knew y0u where capable of making a move/play with any two cards to make a stand on me. So putting those things together i didn't gave you much credit for a hand that beat KK and have to call you.

Hand 4 i think is not good. You can only represent a boat here. miss_pooli plays draws exactly this way. What else he reraise you with on the flop? Only toppair? I think there he has a set or a flushdraw. Bot hands have you beat, the question is or he is gonna lay down his flush.
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Genitruc
Old 05-08-2007, 10:14 AM #15 (permalink)  
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 Thanks for chiming in blackopc. You owned me hard by 3-betting the flop. I thought that any hand you would get all the money in would call my flop check-raise, not 3-bet (since the board was so dry).

I guess I got lucky in Hand 4 (villain folded). Miss pooli must have had the same hand as me!
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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blackopc
Old 05-08-2007, 10:43 AM #16 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
Thanks for chiming in blackopc. You owned me hard by 3-betting the flop. I thought that any hand you would get all the money in would call my flop check-raise, not 3-bet (since the board was so dry).

I guess I got lucky in Hand 4 (villain folded). Miss pooli must have had the same hand as me!
Even on a dry board i think a call of your raise can make a dificult turndecision for me and by 3 betting the flop i put the difficult decision at you. Knowing you have the better hand doesnt always allow slowplay by calling.
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