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Benoso
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02-15-2007, 01:31 PM
Post subject: Some avant garde shit lands me in a spot of bother.
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 157
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OK before reading the HH understand that me and Villain have a lot of history, and we play together regulary. He knows how I play so I tried to mix it up a bit here.
** Game ID 688284388 starting - 2007-02-15 14:06:52
** Mourinho [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money
- lurvasson sitting in seat 1 with $45.63
- ARobertlA sitting in seat 2 with $3.60
- trolleroyal sitting in seat 3 with $17.99 [Dealer]
- Sartrean sitting in seat 4 with $22.44
- cemjem sitting in seat 5 with $17.96
- Zaptista sitting in seat 6 with $28.62
Sartrean posted the small blind - $0.10
cemjem posted the big blind - $0.20
** Dealing card to Zaptista:  
Zaptista called - $0.20
lurvasson folded
ARobertlA folded
trolleroyal folded
Sartrean folded
cemjem checked
** Dealing the flop:   
cemjem checked
Zaptista checked
** Dealing the turn: 
cemjem checked
Zaptista checked
** Dealing the river: 
cemjem went all-in - $17.96
-What's my move?
-Considering what I've said at the top, is my line still unforgivably horrible?
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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You called, right? I think it's a bit horrible, but we don't get to see what your move would have been on the river, so your line is limp/check/check up to the point when it starts to matter.
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Benoso
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 157
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Fair enough, I obviously called and he turns over the case 4.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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raise preflop, bet the flop, bet the turn, bet/call the river
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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yeah idk u are pretty much getting 1:1 odds and so he has to not have the 4 50% of the time, which is ridiculous, there is nothing in the pot. Easy, Easy fold.
But yeah play flop, turn and river like gabe said.
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Benoso
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 157
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
yeah idk u are pretty much getting 1:1 odds and so he has to not have the 4 50% of the time, which is ridiculous, there is nothing in the pot. Easy, Easy fold.
But yeah play flop, turn and river like gabe said.
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Yeah it was bad, I thought he was trying to buy a split pot, or what he thought was going to be a split pot, which isn't incommon at these stakes, I also thought he could have also had the A, making his house better than the board house thus trying to make it look like he was buying a split pot.
When he pushed I was actually quite happy, until I called.
Getting owned is bad.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Did he say "You call you lose baby"?
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Benoso
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 157
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
Did he say "You call you lose baby"?
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Not in so many words, but yeah.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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imo, "buying" a split pot thats only $0.50 by pushing is never the case here. even a semi thinking villain will realize he is losing the whole value of the pot to the rake. This is the same reason you should never call a push in this situation.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Havent read the responses, so Ill toss in my 2 cents
First, raise PF. As played you need to bet, in a raised pot I wouldnt hate checking this flop but as played we need to bet here. We have a strong hand and the pot is small so we need to start getting money in. The turn you need to bet, you have a boat and the pot is tiny, get some money in. On the river your hand is ridiculously underrepped and there is essentially no way your opponent can put you on an ace so he could easily be pushing to get you off a split pot.
Also, this is taking "mixing it up" way to far. At these stakes you simply have to play a straightforward game to win, and even if you want to mix it up, this simply isnt the way to do it. I think people put too much emphasis on changing lines against opponents at the smaller stakes and its most likely a big leak.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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I don't get what people are saying about a split pot... the board reads 4's full of A's, we have A's full of 4's. I insta call that river so fast, he has absolutely nothing here a lot.
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jo
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 166
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If you want to mix it up, do it in such a way that you still get value from your monsters. In other words, bluff those paired boards a lot. Also, there is a flush draw there. Even if he knows you have an ace, there is still reason he might call.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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lol. you went broke on the river after limping and then checking the whole way down. that's awesome. captainzeebo FTW!
this is definately in my top 10 hands i've ever seen.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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Benoso
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 157
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
lol. you went broke on the river after limping and then checking the whole way down. that's awesome. captainzeebo FTW!
this is definately in my top 10 hands i've ever seen.
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Then is was definitely worth it.
Ok so this was bad, real bad but, fwiw, the reason I played it so slow and so ridiculously under-repped is because I knew Villain was firing at the river with air. When checked to on the river I know he'll fire, no matter what he holds.
Like I said I've played with him for months and I've seen him do this lots of times.
My intention was to let him hang himself, cos he has a tendency to stupidly overbet the pot on the river too, especially if it's small so I was trying to create the situation where he'd fire say $4 at the pot then I could push and might even have been called if he had nothing.
Anyway, this one time he does take a shot at the river he's hit his one out and I lose 60% of my stack.
As played I have to call the river right?
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
lol. you went broke on the river after limping and then checking the whole way down. that's awesome. captainzeebo FTW!
this is definately in my top 10 hands i've ever seen.
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Nice contribution.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
I don't get what people are saying about a split pot... the board reads 4's full of A's, we have A's full of 4's. I insta call that river so fast, he has absolutely nothing here a lot.
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i think it was meant as villain thinking this was a split pot by not putting hero on a Ace
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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The chances that he has a 4 are the same that he has an ace. Therefore 1/2 the time we win our money back minus the rake and the other time we get stacked. His play reads nothing like an Ace though.
Therefore he has a 4 or air.
Therefore, we have to determine the percentage of the time he is doing this with air. Im a little tired to do an EV calc right now but Im assuming he has to do this with air a lot to make our call +EV because we lose money either way if he has an Ace or a 4.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
I insta call that river so fast, he has absolutely nothing here a lot.
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Wrong. Unless opponent is an utter retard he rarely has nothing here. The overwhelming majority of the time this is going to be a split pot. The times it's not, you're going to be facing quads more than you are air.
After playing the hand so poorly pre-flop, on the flop, and then again on the turn I guess I shouldn't be suprised when you fire a 4th barrel of stupidity.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Calling with the hope to split in a pot with nothing in it is -EV.
We are never IMO scooping this pot. This is a NLTEP concept. Overbet push a river when you hold the mortal nuts and an obvious 2nd nut hand is out there.
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jo
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
After playing the hand so poorly pre-flop, on the flop, and then again on the turn I guess I shouldn't be suprised when you fire a 4th barrel of stupidity.
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wow
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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i don't think theres anything wron gwith checking pre
but u gotta bet th eflop and the turn.
SLOWPLAYING SUCKS WHEN THE POT IS SMALL
SLOWPLAYING SUCKS WHEN THE POT IS SMALL
SLOWPLAYING SUCKS WHEN THE POT IS SMALL
SLOWPLAYING SUCKS WHEN THE POT IS SMALL
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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lol this is a hilarious hand
i think he has quads here approximately 100% of the time.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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I don't think this would be so bad if it was a raised pot. In an unraised pot this is always a 4.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
SLOWPLAYING SUCKS WHEN THE POT IS SMALL
SLOWPLAYING SUCKS WHEN THE POT IS SMALL
SLOWPLAYING SUCKS WHEN THE POT IS SMALL
SLOWPLAYING SUCKS WHEN THE POT IS SMALL
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Actually it's the other way around.
Slow playing sucks when you can't put opponent on a fairly narrow range.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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well i suppose your right. But slow playing when the pot is unbuilt with a hand that is beat if villain improves is a huge mistake.
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