www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Some 3bet pots for checkup

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

minSim

05-31-2008, 01:09 PM Post subject: Some 3bet pots for checkup

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

------------------
HAND #1
------------------
Villain unknown.

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $57.75
CO: $15.95
Hero (BTN): $50
SB: $60.35
BB: $55.55
UTG: $50.75

Pre-Flop: J

dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB raises to $3.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($8) 5

(2 Players)
SB bets $4.50, Hero calls $4.50

Turn: ($17) K

(2 Players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($17) 7

(2 Players)
SB bets $6.50, Hero ?

------------------
HAND #2
------------------
Villain is 30/22/2.9 over 125 hands. I 3bet villain from the blinds before and he called some and folded some. I have not been to showdown with him in 3bet pots, but in general he seemed to call 3bets loosely.

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $15.15
MP: $49.20
CO: $52.05
BTN: $70
SB: $84.10
Hero (BB): $65.15

Pre-Flop: J

dealt to Hero (BB)
3 folds, BTN raises to $2, SB folds, Hero raises to $7, BTN calls $5

Flop: ($14.25) A

(2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($14.25) 4

(2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $9, Hero calls $9

River: ($32.25) 2

(2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $22.50, Hero ?

------------------
HAND #3
------------------
Same villain as in hand 2.

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $11.05
UTG: $38.15
CO: $63.95
BTN: $129.65
Hero (SB): $61.15

Pre-Flop: 2

dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, CO raises to $2, BTN folds, Hero raises to $7, BB folds, CO calls $5

Flop: ($14.50) T

(2 Players)
Hero bets $9, CO calls $9

Turn: ($32.50) 4

(2 Players)
Hero bets $25, CO raises to $47.95 and is All-In, Hero calls $20.15 and is All-In

River: ($122.80) A

(2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

ATOTHEC101

05-31-2008, 02:08 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2008

Posts: 1,248

i dont mind the way you played hand 1 without reads on villain. However i may slightly lean towards betting 6 on the turn to get a freeshow down on the river and charging hands like aq,aj to drawout as well as likely getting called by weird hands that you beat like 99,88, ace 10 etc. Looking at the way you played it id call the river as hes only betting 6.5 into a 16.5 pot so your getting excellent odds to call though this is somtimes a scared qq, kk who was hoping to checkraise turn and a value town of ak.

In relation to hand 2 i call this river bet all day as youve basicaly repped your range by checking twice as kk,qq,jj and it looks like hes trying to bluff you off those exact hands by betting strongly on a scary board.

In relation to hand 3 i really hate this 3 bet as if you are gonna 3 bet you want to be doing it with a polarized range - king rag and ace rag do not fall into this category. Taking your line the flop bet is fine but once he calls id just check fold the turn (or check call if given good odds) as you mentioned its the same villain as in hand 2 and its obvious hes very agro and wont fold a 10 or most of his range in general to your turn barrel(specially if you called his bluff in hand 2). Once hes reraised all in on the turn you have to call with your outs to the flush draw and gutter as well as possible outs with the king but your original mistake was not folding preflop.

AnTman_69

06-01-2008, 04:12 AM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2007

Location: Brisbane, Australia

Posts: 463

why do u check the flop and turn, in hand 2?

Fnord

06-01-2008, 04:42 AM

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Hand 1: You got the cheap showdown you wanted, I table my hand here.
Hand 2: I like a turn bet because so many hands will call at that point. As played, snap the river.
Hand 3: Don't 3-bet bruff players who call 3-bets light and will give you grief post-flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

nutsinho

06-01-2008, 05:47 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt

Posts: 3,280

1. Call
2. uhhh call lol
3. What made hands do you think this opponent will fold to a double barrel on this turn? I'd guess around 0. Check/call or check/raise the turn depending what you think his bet size means if he makes one.

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

will641

06-01-2008, 06:05 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: getting my swell on

Posts: 1,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnTman_69

why do u check the flop and turn, in hand 2?

my first thought.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

minSim

06-01-2008, 09:18 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Results and my thoughts:

Hand 1: I folded.
It's really weak, but I couldn't really see villain bluffing river or valuebetting thin, because of:
- the min 3bet preflop I have seen a few times the last couple of days, they were all AA.
- I think the possibility of the river betsize being a bluff is close to zero.
- If villain would bluff, why wouldn't he bluff the turn?
- AT with a thin valuebet is possible, but the likelyhood of it being his range is very small, imo.
- AK is definately in his range, as is QQ.

Hand 2: I called, villain showed 44.
I agree on betting turn.
I didn't bet flop because every to all worse hands are folding...a check get's some value on next streets from KK-, as well as bluffs.
I think it's either b/c flop or check. I choose the last, comments on it are very welcome.

Hand 3: villain showed 99.
There are some interesting replies on this hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101

In relation to hand 3 i really hate this 3 bet as if you are gonna 3 bet you want to be doing it with a polarized range - king rag and ace rag do not fall into this category

I thought K2s is quite a rag hand?
I also at this moment do not agree that having a polarized 3bet range is indeed better against a player that calls 3bets a lot. Please explain your thoughts about this if you want, I’m really interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Don't 3-bet bruff players who call 3-bets light and will give you grief post-flop.

I had no reads on villains postflop play in 3bet pots yet. Does that still make it a no with K2s?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

What made hands do you think this opponent will fold to a double barrel on this turn? I'd guess around 0.

Well, I thought 77-99, maybe some T’s sometimes and some other holdings he decided to float the flop with.
Although I agree this shouldn’t be a double barrel.

GrindCity3

06-01-2008, 09:30 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 42

on hand 2 i think that your reasoning for checking the flop is bad, you will get value from weaker aces sometimes and some draws, and the kk- that you are talking about might still give you action on this board... but i would call river imo...

I gotta get back to the money....

ATOTHEC101

06-01-2008, 09:56 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2008

Posts: 1,248

k2s though a rag hand is a hand that will get you into alll sorts of grief post flop as its a hand that rarey flops big and if you flop the king and your flop bet gets raised, then what? By polarized range i mean all your very strong hands i.e big pairs, ak, aqs etc, and to balance your range your suited connectors, some one gappers, small pps etc. To create a polarized range you want to 3 bet the hands that crush your oppenents 3 bet calling rage, as well as hands that are live and rarely dominated by that same range (obviously less often). This 1. gives your big hands more value, and 2. reduces the chance your faced with a very tough post flop decision i.e. the flop comes k48 rainbow, u c bet and get raised when you have k2... . But actually, i somewhat agree with your statement that at 50nl you dont need to do this much as 90 percent of players wont even notice your 3 bet range only consists of very strong hands. But you should still 3 bet with weaker hands, albeit less frequently when in position and not against players who have a tendency to call 3 bets light or be very agro pre or post flop.

Marshall28

06-01-2008, 11:26 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

its not better to have a polarized range vs someone that calls to much ... you want to be merging all day .. though i think his reasoning for telling u not to 3bet K2s is wrong, i think his advice is correct in this situation. you really shouldnt be 3betting someone with that if you are expecting him to call a lot. you'll basically never know where you are at, and you dont seem to quite understand how to play 3bet pots postflop so id for the most part try to stay away from it til u can get to higher stakes where you can actually interpret what players are doing/thinking.

for example ... you said you checked the AJ on the flop because you thought you wouldn't get value from anything worse. the issue is that you are thinking too much about ranges ... putting you on 3rd level when most of your opponents are just playing on 1st ... in actuality, when you check this flop you are repping a very weak ace, a set of aces, or a hand that doesnt like the ace but is planning on calling at least one bet....

this would be what your opponent would be thinking if he understood anything about 3bet pots if you had no history. we cant have any idea what hes thinking wihch is why i think you probably just shouldnt 3bet him oop. id just do it in position with moderately strong hands... i.e. when he opens CO and u r OTB (if hes stealing light). otherwise its just not an extremely profitable play.

ATOTHEC101

06-02-2008, 12:03 AM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2008

Posts: 1,248

no, i wasnt saying to polarize your range against people who call 3 bets lightly, and i actually said to do so against this guy was incorrect due to him being an agro villain who seems to call 3 bets light. 3 betting alot tighter mixed with merging your range is a far better approach. Though agreed in my first post i wasnt clear why 3 betting with k2 suited was bad against this specific villain.

Marshall28

06-02-2008, 01:30 AM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

no need to defend yourself, i was just giving my opinion : )

ATOTHEC101

06-02-2008, 01:39 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2008

Posts: 1,248

lol no problem

"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.

Robb

06-02-2008, 02:29 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,074

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

You seem passive on Hands 1 & 2 when you should have been putting in bets yourself, then got agro w/ K2s when passivity probably works better.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

griffey24

06-02-2008, 04:11 PM

#15 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Hand 1 - call all day, pot odds! Though I must admit his turn check of the K is somewhat scary and if he had bet more on river I'd be inclined to fold. I'd expect him to bluff the K on the turn if he was going to be bluffing.

Hand 2 - Wow, bet everywhere. If you don't think you'll ever get called by worse when you spike your A with AJ, then why even 3-bet AJ? Bet flop because you're betting almost your entire range of 3-betting hands on this flop. Bet flop, jam turn.

Hand 3 - yah if he's calling a lot of 3-bets then i'd probably 3-bet him more with KJ/QJ/77 type hands than polarizing my range. If he's calling too much, that means he'll have some crappy K6s hand vs your K2s when you spike your K and stuff like that. I agree with marshall with regards to merging your range against someone that is calling 3-bets too much.

As played, I probably end up playing it the same in the moment, even though I agree with nutsinho that there aren't that many hands that called that flop that will now fold the turn. I just don't like c/c here too much, since there isn't enough money behind if we do hit. If you have reads that he calls flop bets in 3-bet pots but folds turns (which a lot of players do) then I'd fire this turn.

Latest Poker News
Bbickes	06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
In an effort to perhaps keep players from moving to the new Revolution Network setup by the former Lock Poker, Merge Network has taken drastic steps to respond to their player base's requests to impro ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:19 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Short-Handed NL Hold'em

Some 3bet pots for checkup

Play for FREE and practice your game at...