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thizzSantaCruz
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08-25-2008, 06:08 AM
Post subject: so i get pwned in a 3bet pot, how do i adjust?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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This hand happened between me and a guy I have limited live experience playing. Hes a pretty good player. He ships me the hh on my request and I get to thinking, how do you adjust to a player like this? The obvious answer is to start double barreling more in 3 bet pots, but what range will you be doubling?
http://www.pokerhand.org/?3090087
I had JJ in the hand by the way. Any comments on how I played it would be great. I am having a great difficultly lately playing JJ oop in a pot I 3 bet.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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[ ] hand history is in thread
[ ] thread delivers.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
[ x] hand history is in thread
[ ?] thread delivers.
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FYP
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Adjust your 3-bet range.
I would go with AQ/AK/QQ+/suited trash/suited Aces
Less of the suited trash/aces if he's not folding to 3-bets.
Also, consider firing smaller bets. Or check/call the turn light after he calls your c-bet.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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maybe because we can see what villain had here, but i would really really want to look that up and i dont think its too much of a hero call. He's just repping such a thin range and people LOVE to flop the flop in 3bet pots now.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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1. find a range he doesn't shove the flop with that beats you
2. THISISSANTACRUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ
3. ......
4. profit?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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[x] flop the flop
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
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are you mellonball or gnar nar
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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its really simple actually ...
the first thing you do is determine what kinds of hands he is flatting your 3bets with....next... look at the type of hand he shows down... if he is showing down KTs, then you should probably 3bet a merged range... i.e. AK/AQ/AJ/KQ/TT+
then c-bet low flops you miss and all flops you hit. --- if this same situation were to play out again, u wouldn't want to c-bet this flop w/ JJ.
if he shows down something like 55, then start 3betting him w/ a polar range, mostly like suited connectors/aces/kings/queens and just c-bet any flop that has high cards and apply tons of pressure.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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OOP vs someone who's probably going to piss on you after the flop, is there much wrong with flatting with the intention of playing a medium pot?
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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I agree, flatting Jacks is only pussy if you're in position. Out of position it's good pot control.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by overflow
I agree, flatting Jacks is only pussy if you're in position. Out of position it's good pot control.
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what? 3 betting jacks in position is only good if you plan on stacking off with them preflop. flatting them vs tight players is perfectly fine. OOP 3 betting is a neccessity otherwise its just suicide.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Against a guy who is going to call with KTs seems like JJ is an easy value 3bet.
He's not going to "piss on us" a lot by the way if we can hand-read and put him on a range.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by overflow
I agree, flatting Jacks is only pussy if you're in position. Out of position it's good pot control.
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lol its quite the opposite.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
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Location: San Francisco, CA
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oops
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Against a guy who is going to call with KTs seems like JJ is an easy value 3bet.
He's not going to "piss on us" a lot by the way if we can hand-read and put him on a range.
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Even if we can put him on a range, if he's good he can pretty easily manipulate that range with the intention of pissing on us, surely?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by overflow
I agree, flatting Jacks is only pussy if you're in position. Out of position it's good pot control.
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lol its quite the opposite. |
How is it good Unlimited Hold'them to build big pots out of position with JJ? Such a great hand to defend with the way most people attack the blinds....
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by overflow
I agree, flatting Jacks is only pussy if you're in position. Out of position it's good pot control.
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lol its quite the opposite. |
How is it good Unlimited Hold'them to build big pots out of position with JJ? Such a great hand to defend with the way most people attack the blinds.... |
but then wed have to actually play postflop poker oop, WTF!
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by overflow
I agree, flatting Jacks is only pussy if you're in position. Out of position it's good pot control.
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lol its quite the opposite. |
How is it good Unlimited Hold'them to build big pots out of position with JJ? Such a great hand to defend with the way most people attack the blinds.... |
but then wed have to actually play postflop poker oop, WTF! |
You don't want the lead OOP with JJ in a 3bet pot, because you're playing a marginally strong hand virtually blind on the flop, playing pot control OOP is an oxymoron, there are a ton of flops that you're either going to be bet/folding, check/raise/calling against a range on the flop that probably has you killed if he's overshipping. Or even check calling two streets to fold to a big bet on the river on a somewhat ugly board. Any way you look at it JJ plays really shitty in 3bet pots OOP. It seems to me that 3betting JJ OOP is almost turning it into a bluff unless you're 3betting a button or co opener out of the blinds, then its a bit different as JJ should be crushing our opponents' CO/BTN opening range. In blind steal situations I believe it's a lot more plausible to expect to get three streets of value from worse hands in a 3bet pot w/ JJ. This would be the only time I feel 3betting JJ OOP is the right play.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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I just read the hand history and I can't believe you folded jacks there. I think we should have a strategy thread on playing the turn and river in 3bet pots.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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That board is super super drawy, so I'd imagine that most of villains range will be shoving that flop (strong draws, and strong hands). Once called, I'd say his range is pretty weak hands/weak draws, maybe like 9x, TT, AJ,AT or insider type hands that didn't wanna shove flop.
He prob wouldn't ship in these middle pair type hands on turn, so its very likely that a turn shove is often a float here I'd say. Sometimes we see a weak Q here like QT or QJ or something, but I don't think that often.
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