|
Lukie
|
11-11-2006, 01:30 AM
Post subject: smooth calling aces OOP
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
Villain is a good, winning LAG regular. It is gambler2k4, the one with the goofy cardrunners avatar.
This guy owns me. Standard protocol when I call one of his raises out of position is for me to call preflop, lead the flop, and fold when he raises. Hence, it's possible that he might call me down lightly, as I do make this play with KJ/AJ from time to time. I also have 22, TT, and QT here a lot.
Usually I'd just 3-bet pre, but given the situation, I actually think this is the better play. He has quite a wide range opening on the button and will muck the large majority of it to a 3-bet, but *may* call me down light if I put him to the test post-flop.
294 to him the second time around.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
SB ($1351.60)
Hero ($827.50)
UTG ($406)
MP ($1071.40)
Button ($394)
Preflop: Hero is BB with A , A .
2 folds, Button raises to $16, 1 fold, Hero calls $12.
Flop: ($34) 2 , Q, T (2 players)
Hero bets $24, Button raises to $84, Hero raises to $811.5
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
yea its fine sometimes but since you reraise alot pre you should reraise with AA alot too
|
|
|
|
johnny_fish
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
|
|
Me likey (as a mix-up)
|
|
|
|
aislephive
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
|
|
Looks good. I'm sure he stacks off with a lot of hands here that you beat.
One thing though, how often do you smooth call button raises from the BB at all? I'll very rarely do it (I'm more of a 3 bet or fold type personally from the blinds facing a LP raise) so I'm almost always reraising here. If you tend to defind yours blinds a decent amount I like the occasional preflop smooth call with AA, but I'm pretty sure you're just like me and would have 3 bet the button with even 22 here, so I would have reraised 99% of the time here because I get no respect and I imagine you wouldn't get any either.
I'm guessing he had a set or flopped top two or something since you posted it, but I think the play is pretty standard given preflop. Bet/3bet ai is very sexy on this board.
|
|
|
|
mcatdog
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
|
|
I call from the BB a lot against crappy TAGs who always continuation bet, but never fire a second barrel unless they have a big hand. You can win a lot of medium-sized pots by calling their c-bets with pairs and sometimes check-raising them. The more of an edge you have post-flop, the better calling is IMO. I agree with you that the less often Lukie calls a raise from the blinds, the worse this hand is.
|
|
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
me likey.
nh
|
|
|
|
alias2211
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: U, S and A!!!
Posts: 469
|
|
ive played with him before on other sites and he's very aggressive. obviously you have noticed this as well. did you think about waiting until the turn to try and get it all in? with players who are that aggro in position, i usually prefer to give them a little more time and room to do themselves in, even on coordinated boards. a player like that is probably more inclined to push allin himself than he is to call an allin like that with hands you beat.
there is some sort of disconnect between how you passively play PF and then come out firing on the flop that makes so little sense that i like it a lot against a player like him. you may get a curiosity call there because of that line, but i think against different types of players you would get called more often while you're ahead.
|
|
|
|
stuck
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 586
|
|
I like this line against aggressive players, and also to mix it up.
|
|
If I had a hammer
I'd drop in the morning
I'd drop in the evening..
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
i think reraising is better, and i think you are only getting called here when you are beat or flipping. Are you expecting him to call you with Qx or something?
|
|
|
|
UG
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
|
|
our hand looks like a total draw, so, yeah we're looking for something like Qx to call.
|
|
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
seems like a pretty thin range that we're looking to get value from
|
|
|
|
UG
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
|
|
that's not the only hand we're looking to get a call from
our hand looks like draw. how many times have you seen somebody post, "well, with your overbet it looks so obvious to me that it's a draw that I think you get called here more often than not." KK, JJ, Qx, hell, even Tx might make this call here.
|
|
|
|
bdawg56kg
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
|
|
Def 3-bet vs this guy. He tends to call 3-bets lightly pf and also peel lightly on the flop. Your 3-bet range is pretty wide here, so it's not like you're giving away the strength of your hand.
I think calling oop with AA is fine on occasion, but save it for a different opponent/situation. (I'd also be more likely to c/r this flop in this situation rather than lead and 3-bet ai)
|
|
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ultimate George
that's not the only hand we're looking to get a call from
our hand looks like draw. how many times have you seen somebody post, "well, with your overbet it looks so obvious to me that it's a draw that I think you get called here more often than not." KK, JJ, Qx, hell, even Tx might make this call here.
|
Tx and JJ are never calling here because most "draws" are ahead of them with their overcard outs
|
|
|
|
UG
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
|
|
you argue like my wife. not just in this thread, but in a lot that I've seen you post in.
a great point is made (overall), yet you choose to pick one little thing out of the argument that might be wrong, and you focus on that, instead of the overall great point that was made.
stop doing that.
|
|
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
i don't think its small potatoes that we only get called when beaten/flipping here
|
|
|
|
DaNutsInYoEye
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ultimate George
you argue like any woman not just in this thread, but in a lot that I've seen you post in.
a great point is made (overall), yet you choose to pick one little thing out of the argument that might be wrong, and you focus on that, instead of the overall great point that was made.
stop doing that.
|
FYP
|
|
TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
|
|
UG
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Renton
i don't think its small potatoes that we only get called when beaten/flipping here
|
weird lines sometimes get bad calls, even by good players
|
|
|
|
UG
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ultimate George
you argue like any woman not just in this thread, but in a lot that I've seen you post in.
a great point is made (overall), yet you choose to pick one little thing out of the argument that might be wrong, and you focus on that, instead of the overall great point that was made.
stop doing that.
|
FYP |
amen brother, preach on
|
|
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
Def 3-bet vs this guy. He tends to call 3-bets lightly pf and also peel lightly on the flop. Your 3-bet range is pretty wide here, so it's not like you're giving away the strength of your hand.
I think calling oop with AA is fine on occasion, but save it for a different opponent/situation. (I'd also be more likely to c/r this flop in this situation rather than lead and 3-bet ai)
|
I think 3-betting pre is almost always the better play, especially when taking meta-game into consideration, but I think we have a pretty different read on this guy. When he opens in late position, he pretty much always folds when I 3-bet out of the blinds.
|
|
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
Renton, I'm not saying it definately applies in this hand, but it can often be correct to call when you are either crushed or a marginal favorite. IE when you have an overpair facing a line that looks a lot like a set/big draw. Say you're getting almost 2:1 though, and you favor the draw. That would be an easy call. Similar reasoning can often be found preflop in low M tournament situations where you're either a marginal favorite or a big dog, but pot odds dictate a call.
In this particular hand, he insta-called so I knew it was either a set or top 2. Turn blanks, river brings a black 2 and I scoop when he shows QT.
I think he would sometimes call here with a Q but I'm not really sure. I think he'd likely call with AQ and likely fold KQ (again, not sure). I think it's highly unlikely that he'd muck anything better like KK. He'd also call with pretty much any draw that he raised and that's certainly not unlikely. I also think I will get the very rare call with a made hand worse then top pair but I think that would be a rare exception.
Oh yeah, and, he opens such a wide range from the button here and pretty much auto-raises whenever I lead, so the fact that he woke up with a hand that was > AA is a semi-miracle in itself. I've practiced pairing the board on the river for countless hours though. Usually I reserve it for set--->boat over flush, but there's nothing wrong with doing it on occasion to over 2 pair someone.
|
|
|
|
dsaxton
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
|
|
Obviously he has to assume his hand is good here, and it makes no sense to just call, so he might as well raise all-in (any type of reraise commits him to the pot) to maximize his chances of winning the pot. Even if he's often beat when he gets called, it doesn't really matter since he's almost never beat, particularly against someone like this.
|
|
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Even if he's often beat when he gets called, it doesn't really matter since he's almost never beat, particularly against someone like this.
|
does this mean that its +EV to bet/3bet all in on this flop with air vs said villain?
|
|
|
|
UG
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
|
|
it depends
|
|
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
well, obviously in moderation, and obviously with a nit image
very interesting.....
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Obviously he has to assume his hand is good here, and it makes no sense to just call
|
calling and leading the turn makes lots of sense
|
|
|
|
dsaxton
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
|
|
I think that once the pot gets this big, winning it is more important than extracting more value.
Since there's half a buy-in in the pot already on the flop, I see nothing wrong with just taking it down by raising all-in. If he somehow has a set or two pair, so be it.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
Linear Mode
