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Da GOAT
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09-16-2010, 10:47 AM
Post subject: Small Blind Play - Discuss
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Im talking about spots where its folded to you in the SB and we have options to either fold or raise.
Im finding that players are calling in the BB way more often than they used to, this gives rise to them having a wider range. They are also floating a ton of flops. And we could say Im seeing alot more 3betting from the BB too but not to the extent of which im seeing a call from BB.
(Note: This is mostly vs regs or players who appear decent stats wise, does not include nits, tags, fish).
Ive been thinkin of counters to all these moves (in no particular order):-
1 - I should say this first, just steal your norm amount vs these types of opps and just see how they adjust.
2 - Tighten up preflop, this is the most obv one. Tighten up a ton and fold more.
3 - This is where Im abit cautious/not convinced, play larger pots OOP. ie. lets start double barrelling, triple barrelling, c/r some turns to floats. (note this implys we havent tightened up much preflop.
4 - Stop cb'ing so much.
These are kinda the general adjustments but each has its flaws.
-Tightening up preflop feels weka when I may fold SB like 5 times in a row. Im not talking super tight but prob just close to my CO opening range (prob a tad tighter than my CO range).
- Betting huge amount postflop kinda feels spewy, opp does have a similiar range to mine in a way. Blind play can produce lots of spewy calls, bets, i dont beleive him spots.
- i gotta stop cbing so much too but c/fing feels nasty, tho i do do it.
Im kinda looking for a small bit of feedback on blind play and get some direction. Ive heard some high stakes players play fairly tight in the SB, is it better to just fold alot of SB spots.
Any thoughts?
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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I think you answered your own questions there, all of these are good adjustments.
I play pretty tight from the SB vs good regs that can punish me, its probably the easiest adjustment. Maybe open ~20-25% or so vs them. Steal about 60% vs nits, and just play higher cards, playable hands vs ppl that tend to call a lot in the BB.
I sometimes limp the bottom of my playable range vs fish, i wanna play pots with them but I still wanna keep the pot small OOP.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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versus good players i just fold my SB the majority of the time, and open a range like J8s+/Axs/22+. i don't have pokerstove right now but i'd guess that like 20-25%
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Originally Posted by Carroters
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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ok cool, just wanted to rant some thoughts and satisfied im doing fine.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da GOAT
Im talking about spots where its folded to you in the SB and we have options to either fold or raise.
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you're missing an option
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
you're missing an option
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not really, ill limp weak stuff vs fish sometimes but that rare enough.
*i was gonna say this in bracket in my OP but didnt think someone would point it out  *
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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HiLo
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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I have heard players better than me saying that limp/calling v players that are defending fairly wide when we have hands that are playable but can't call a 3b is a viable option. I have been experimenting with this with mixed results (slightly winning when BB checks / slightly losing when BB raises). I guess I am not the best at playing OOP against a pf raiser.
edit: Have just rechecked my stats in these situations and although my results are pretty meh, it is better than I thought.
-0.95bb/100 when I limp/call, as opposed to 12.11bb/100 when BB checks.
In total this gives me +3.12bb/100, which is a hell of a lot better than the -50bb/100 for folding these marginal hands v an aggro BB.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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HiLo, you sure they are doing that at 6 max. They could do them on HU tables and still have position.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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HiLo
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da GOAT
HiLo, you sure they are doing that at 6 max. They could do them on HU tables and still have position.
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I'll look for the thread, but am pretty sure it was Renton that made a post about it, so I guess he does it at FR and 6 max.
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lancelott_
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
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check how often they are ccalling vs 3Bing vs folding BB2steal vs folding to flop Cbet.
And adjust your opening range/go from there. Obv vs looser/not give up happy guys OOP you don`t wanna go nuts, as opposed to fitorfold/straightforward or tight guys.
You will need hands that flop strong pairs, don`t have huge problems with kickers, and have enough equity to barrel turns/rivers frequently
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelott_
check how often they are ccalling vs 3Bing vs folding BB2steal vs folding to flop Cbet.
And adjust your opening range/go from there. Obv vs looser/not give up happy guys OOP you don`t wanna go nuts, as opposed to fitorfold/straightforward or tight guys.
You will need hands that flop strong pairs, don`t have huge problems with kickers, and have enough equity to barrel turns/rivers frequently
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pretty much what I said yea
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I'd only tend to limp vs weak players and in that case it would be all weak hands. Limping isn't a good idea with junk hands against an aggressive player because its just throwing money away. I don't like the idea of limping a balanced range because it makes our raising range weaker which just makes an aggro strategy vs opens better.
There's nothing wrong with 4xing a very tight range from the SB vs an aggro player. You are at a huge disadvantage in the SB heads up against the BB because of position.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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i limp as a default in games with antes b/c i think we give up way too much folding the sb. i then add a polarized limp/rr range, usually making it kinda big. we tend to have a large advantage in limped pots and a large disadvantage in limp/called pots and a small advantage in LRR pots
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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For me its an extremely player dependent thing where i open anywhere from 25% to 100%. I play full ring though. Theres not that many people nitty enough at six max to be opening 100%.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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limping is fine vs any player. stop trying to be a tagg
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