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Situation that I struggle with

  
 
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JL
Old 05-07-2008, 10:01 PM     Post subject: Situation that I struggle with #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain = Tagg running 22/18.
Let's assume we have no reads on villain other than that, and we haven't tangled at all with him yet.

Our image is Laggy.

Do we auto-fold here without reads?
Is shoving bad?


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Stack sizes:
UTG: $61.95
CO: $194.90
Button: $228.30
Hero: $263.95
BB: $202.90

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with J J
UTG folds, CO raises to $7, Button folds, Hero raises to $22, BB folds, CO raises to $67
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EzDuzIt
Old 05-07-2008, 10:30 PM #2 (permalink)  
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well folding is safe and low variance for now which is good until you know more.

but if light 4betting from regs in these games is common then shoving isnt bad.
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meeloche
Old 05-07-2008, 11:38 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 If I don't have a history with a tagg that involves 4 betting light or a really spewy 3 betting image than I fold here.



 
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Deanglow
Old 05-08-2008, 01:24 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 I'm pretty much never folding against a 22/18 CO open when I have a laggy image out of the blinds with jacks. JJ is decently close, but I still probably shove 1010 and maybe AQs.
 
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bode
Old 05-08-2008, 10:53 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
I'm pretty much never folding against a 22/18 CO open when I have a laggy image out of the blinds with jacks. JJ is decently close, but I still probably shove 1010 and maybe AQs.
what is villain calling with thats worse here if we're shoving TT+/AQs+? Or is the dead money we pick up enough if he folds? I just dont see many people putting in 1/3 of their stack and folding or shipping with worse hands.
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minSim
Old 05-08-2008, 11:38 AM #6 (permalink)  
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It's so important what history you and villain have regarding 3bets and btn vs blind play.
It's the deciding factor between fold or push.

Without any history, imo you have to fold...because you're flipping at best and don't pick up much dead money, because there's little FE.

With a certain lighter 3-betting history, there's more dead money to pick up as villains range is wider, so very likely more FE. Especially if villains stackoff range is still tight.
If villain opens his stackoff range that's good for JJ as well, because it often has a lot of equity against the hands he opens it up with.

In this particular example villain leaves room for a fold, fwiw.

I don't like calling and stacking of on a non A/K flop, because by calling you perceive villains range to have enough 'weaker' hands (SC's, Axs, lower PP's, AQ, KQ maybe) for a call to be good and you never know if you are making a big mistake folding a A/K flop. So calling and stacking of no matter what is an option, but feel says shoving preflop is better.
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