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JL
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01-06-2008, 11:23 PM
Post subject: Simple Pre-flop Decision
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Villain is 25/20 - this is 5max so I'd say he's a Tagg, maybe a sLagg. No other reads...never tangled with him before.
What is considered standard here vs this villain? Fold or push?
Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
5 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $195.00
CO: $390.25
Button: $31.40
SB: $48.15
Hero: $252.20
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with Q  Q 
UTG raises to $8, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero raises to $34, UTG raises to $108, CO folds, Hero folds??
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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He raises UTG and 4-bets you. At best he has AK and for 100bb I have been known to take the gamble. But if this is the first time he has 4-bet me then I might light it go. If my image is crazy/aggressive then I call. If I have been tight then I fold.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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shove
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EzDuzIt
shove
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maybe there is a big difference between 1/2 and .5/1 but i dont really see him 4 betting anything we beat besides AK and thats a flip, and we have 0 FE.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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i havent done the math, but i think that even if his range is only AA/KK/AK it would still be like atleast neutralish ev with the money already in? also sometimes people dont 4bet aa/kk and hes gonna have other stuff sometimes too. even if u throw QQ in there that would help with the dead money thats already in there.
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FlyingSaucy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Watching the kids
Posts: 1,603
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The fact that he's UTG and 4 betting you makes me fold this against a random tagg, but I don't think it's a simple decision.
First thing I would do is take a quick look at your recent stats for the table. I doubt that it is a question of getting a read on the kind of player UTG is as much as it is a question of figuring out what utg's read is on your 3 bet range. The only way I'm calling is if I know he's observant and I have been very active preflop on raises and 3 bets in position.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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His 4-bet size makes me want to push all-in here. But I would fold here a lot of the time doo, all depends on the player I guess.
Also, why did you 3-bet so big? Is $26-28 not more standard?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Also, why did you 3-bet so big? Is $26-28 not more standard?
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Because of the cold-caller.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Is there a decent amount of squeezing in poker rooms 1/2 games?
This is just like a fist pump shove on stars and fulltilt.
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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The Ongame 200NL game is not famous for light squeezing. I get far too much respect when I squeeze so unless JL has been active this is a fold to me.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Haha I'm not too bright.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by silu73
The Ongame 200NL game is not famous for light squeezing. I get far too much respect when I squeeze so unless JL has been active this is a fold to me. |
This is true.
However, I have noticed a ton more squeezing going on at $400NL.
At 200NL on Ongame with a tight image, I agree with you that this is a fold.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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so ongame this is only like AA/KK or what?
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EzDuzIt
so ongame this is only like AA/KK or what? |
The good regs will squeeze, but for the most part, yeah, this is AA-KK the vast majority of the time. Definately not a lot of light 4-betting. The site has more of a passive call station type thing going rather than aggro donk. Though of course there are some.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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fold because of the site and lack of history.
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chris_k14
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If not stats, have to fold.Msot times at best 50-50 agasint he AK.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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ok so if utg's range for doing this is AA/KK/AK/QQ only, no other hands and he calls with his entire range then this would be almost exactly neutral EV. i think that some players just call with AA/KK sometimes here and i think its possible he could have a wider range. so with him just calling the 3bet with AA or w/e sometimes or having a wider range this would be +ev. in my games there would be a wider range... but i think this should be atleast a breakeven play if not +ev.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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He has AK wayyyyy more than KK/AA, based on probability and raise size, so I shove, not to mention he could have some ridiculous hand, as well as JJ.
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