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Halv
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06-18-2007, 12:05 PM
Post subject: Simple AK TPTK 3-bet pot spot
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#1 (permalink)
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Villain is 32/14, note says "c/minraise means strength", no other read. I've been 20/18-ish and haven't been 3-betting lightly, solid semi-aggro image.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($444.05)
MP ($417)
Hero ($428)
SB ($195.90)
BB ($352.45)
Preflop: Hero is Button with K , A .
UTG raises to $14, 1 fold, Hero raises to $48, 2 folds, UTG calls $34.
Flop: ($102) J , 4, A (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $74, UTG calls $74.
Turn: ($250) 4 (2 players)
UTG checks, Halv ???
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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I would check behind. You can't stand much heat on the turn so a c/r would suck and there aren't really any draws. Call/bet the river.
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Kagey
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 158
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Why not half pot it. His line looks either weak scared of the Ace, or very strong if he's a slow player. Since he hasn't min raised the flop it looks like the first. If he check-raises you have a difficult decision. Also why give free cards for someone to back themselves into a flush?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kagey
Also why give free cards for someone to back themselves into a flush?
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Because in a 3bet pot his range is skewed towards big aces and big pairs so a backdoor flushdraw is so unlikely and most of the times he has one he has the A:hearts: aswell. If we bet again he might fold something like AQ but if we check here and bet the turn he probably calls with it flush or not. If we bet here he certainly folds KK but if we check behind he could put out a blocking bet or call a bet on the river. If we bet about the only thing thats calling is sets/AK.
I check behind and call the river if he bets and bet if checked to. Im not sure about pushing over a river bet if he makes a smallish one though.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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check behind and take him to value town on river
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
check behind and take him to value town on river
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
check behind and take him to value town on river
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I agree with this for sure. There are so many aces that would fold to a strong second barrel on the turn, but would call if you checked through and value bet on the river.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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ARGGH, wrote a big post but it deleted
Basically I see value in betting turn since it creates big enough pot to shove river and get value from AT, AQ, and even maybe a fold from AK. Only hand that beats us is AJ.
Only way betting turn is bad is if you think he has QQ or KK that called a std. c-bet on flop. If you bet turn he'll run away, so checking and value betting river will be better.
If he like to call lots, it would be criminal not to bet this turn.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
check behind and take him to value town on river
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I agree with this for sure. There are so many aces that would fold to a strong second barrel on the turn, but would call if you checked through and value bet on the river. |
You have a point, I guess I play against too many donkish calling stations. People calling reraises pf with AT+ and flopping an ace will talk themselves into calling a turn bet here cuz they is donkeys.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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I guess I suck because I'd go all-in here for sure.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
I guess I suck because I'd go all-in here for sure.
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no don t think u suck
shoving or checking are best imo since they ll both get thinking opponents to put money in pot with weak holdings (on river in case of checking)
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Kagey
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 158
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Alexos wrote
Quote:
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You have a point, I guess I play against too many donkish calling stations. People calling reraises pf with AT+ and flopping an ace will talk themselves into calling a turn bet here cuz they is donkeys.
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[/quote]
I think this may be a big difference between low and higher stakes poker. At 50nl (ipoker) I find I can get plenty of value from both streets. You'd be amazed at the times you'll get called on the turn by A9 off, then calledfor an AI on the river 'cos thy've pot-comitted themselves. Also KK and QQ will seriously overvalue there hands at this level too.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kagey
Alexos wrote
Quote:
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You have a point, I guess I play against too many donkish calling stations. People calling reraises pf with AT+ and flopping an ace will talk themselves into calling a turn bet here cuz they is donkeys.
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I think this may be a big difference between low and higher stakes poker. At 50nl (ipoker) I find I can get plenty of value from both streets. You'd be amazed at the times you'll get called on the turn by A9 off, then calledfor an AI on the river 'cos thy've pot-comitted themselves. Also KK and QQ will seriously overvalue there hands at this level too.[/quote]
Yeah, and you'd be surprised they dont play much better at 400nl, and donks will still pay you off with A9o 
..sometimes
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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I bet half pot and called the shove, he had JJ gg.
I agree that a check behind is better, with the intention of calling a bet on the river or make some sort of bet myself (I'm thinking a river shove is goot?) if he checks.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
Yeah, and you'd be surprised they dont play much better at 400nl, and donks will still pay you off with A9o
..sometimes |
QFT, and it's no suprise that these are the players that make semidonks like me +++EV at the tables.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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I only like your play if it was your intention to induce a (bluff-, JJ type hand-) shove with a small turn bet.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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checking the flop isnt too bad either
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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