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Fnord
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09-27-2006, 04:16 AM
Post subject: A silly little pre-flop problem
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Poker Stars 1/2 NLHE
Folded to me and I have JTo on the button.
SB has $50 and is in a hurry to bust out so he can call it a night. I expect him to call any resonably sane raise, maybe even push lots of stuff. Post-flop is hard to call, c-betting might not be insta-profit.
BB has $180. He had around $100 when I sat down. Kinda donkish but probably tries to play well at some level.
I don't think my table image plays into this hand at all as I've done nothing to build up any mistrust and I doubt they're paying enough attention to think I'm tight or passive.
What's my play? If I raise, by how much?
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elipsesjeff
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Open limp. If SB pushes he pushes regardless and they'll still check to you if they miss on the flop. I'm not too confident about this play, but if I'm up against severe short stacks and don't have odds to call their allin raise preflop, i've been trying this out.
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Fnord
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Jeff, I think you need to change your password. Clearly someone else logged on and posted under your name. 
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Jeff, I think you need to change your password. Clearly someone else logged on and posted under your name. |
Hey, I never said I was good :P, but I think it solves all your problems. Weren't you advocating open limping the button a while back? Maybe it was a vent combo we had....
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Fnord
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Jeff, I think you need to change your password. Clearly someone else logged on and posted under your name. |
Hey, I never said I was good :P, but I think it solves all your problems. Weren't you advocating open limping the button a while back? Maybe it was a vent combo we had.... |
I was certain you'd post "Make it $8 and bet the flop you sissy." Not that I disagree with your line of thought.
For the record, I haven't open limped the button in a long time. However, I've been playing with some different openers from UTG/HJ in full 6-max games. I'm pretty sold that 4x and jamm it isn't the best approach.
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gabe
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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i open limp that button sometimes too. all 3 options work.
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Fnord
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Moderator
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I almost did it, but just couldn't hit the call button. I blocked for 3x instead figuring that building a bit of a pot here and defining BB's hand would be worth it. SB pushed and KTs is my calling standard here 
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Robert
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Full House
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Well, didnt you just already give all the arguments for openlimping this hand? Open limp plz, people answering with oneliners like "I never openlimp" are just stupid. Openlimping has its merrits, and you just told us why in your topic.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert
Well, didnt you just already give all the arguments for openlimping this hand? Open limp plz, people answering with oneliners like "I never openlimp" are just stupid. Openlimping has its merrits, and you just told us why in your topic.
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I dont think anyone who answered this thread has said "i never open limp." And, they probably wont even if they truly feel that way and some will still disagree with us, no matter what is involved.
It didn't take too many "short stack pushes which i cant call with my hand if he did and it looks like if i raise he pushes" before i realized if i don't raise he doesn't go all in. Also, once you raise once and he pushes and you fold, he's likely to do it 2 or 3 more times until you finally call and either double him up or bust him.
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Robert
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Full House
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Jeff,
I know that noone has said this yet, but I expected someone to pop in soon and say it - it just seems that many people have misunderstood the concepts of openlimping/openraising and has made "never openlimp" their religious mantra and always openraise no matter what the circumstances are.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert
Jeff,
I know that noone has said this yet, but I expected someone to pop in soon and say it - it just seems that many people have misunderstood the concepts of openlimping/openraising and has made "never openlimp" their religious mantra and always openraise no matter what the circumstances are.
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I agree, although these statements are much more applicable in LHE and its probably where they started.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
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I never open limp
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I might minbet open, I think this is just slightly better than an open limp. BB might fold. :P
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
I never open limp
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i knew someone would do that just because he said it.
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Ravageur
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Official Montreal SwampRat
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I don't mind open limping, but I don't like open limping from the button. In EP or limping behind others I think it's fine.
I just think it's way too +EV to raise on the button.
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Family Cruise IMO
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Open shove in this situation obv
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
I might minbet open, I think this is just slightly better than an open limp. BB might fold. :P
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I dont know what to say, even though what you are suggesting is quite hilarious it might be a goot play. lol
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gabe
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Moderator
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yea i never open limp either, but when short stacks are in the blinds i do all the time in late position. like if post blinds have 40bb, open raising 55 or T9s from the button is usually not such a good idea.
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