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Sick of 200NL hands yet? :)

  
 
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ChrisTheFish
Old 02-23-2008, 04:17 AM     Post subject: Sick of 200NL hands yet? :) #1 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: Villain is unknown

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($211.15)
UTG+1 ($200.00)
CO ($192.00)
BTN ($294.75)
SB ($27.25)
Hero ($746.34)
[UTG+1 posted $2]

Pre-flop: ($5, 6 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, UTG+1 checks, 2 folds, SB calls $1, Hero checks

Flop: ($6, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, UTG+1 raises to $10, SB folds, Hero calls $6

Turn: ($26, 2 players)
Hero bets $18, UTG+1 calls $18

River: ($62, 2 players)
Hero bets $41, UTG+1 raises to $90, Hero folds

Final Pot: $190.00

UTG+1 wins $190 ( won +$70 )
Hero lost -$71.00
SB lost -$2.00



Hand 2: Again villain is unknown :\

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($200.00)
UTG+1 ($242.50)
CO ($521.30)
Hero ($249.00)
SB ($210.35)
BB ($670.50)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BTN
3 folds, Hero raises to $8, SB calls $7, 1 fold

Flop: ($18, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, SB raises to $42, Hero calls $28

Turn: ($102, 2 players)
SB goes all-in $160.35, Hero folds

Final Pot: $259.35

SB wins $259.35 ( won +$49 )
Hero lost -$50.00
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will641
Old 02-23-2008, 05:14 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 1) i dont really see anything he raises that we beat. who makes a miny raise with the :Qc

2) this is absurd. i call this. what is he repping? a set boat doesnt play it this aggro. i mean reads are pretty critical in this hand.
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mixchange
Old 02-23-2008, 05:23 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 - UTG+1 posted? You have to call river for that reason only.
Hand 2 - shove or fold flop
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 02-23-2008, 05:56 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 1). flop c/r works good in unraised pots 100BB deep w/ non nut draws, weak top pairs, etc. can't fold river. bet bigger on turn/river.

2). rough math here but 2-x would need to make up like 2/3rds of his range for a call to be slightly -EV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 02-23-2008, 05:58 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
Hand 2 - shove or fold flop
this would be bad because often we are facing a bluff or pair over which we have two overcards. we are IP and have a couple of options on the turn depending on what villain does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-23-2008, 06:11 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 hand 1 looks good

hand 2 I'd call quick
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Alexos
Old 02-23-2008, 07:22 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 INSTA SNAPCALL FISTPUMP HAND #2
Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //

Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
 
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Ragnar4
Old 02-23-2008, 09:28 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Hand 1. Why would you go to the river if you didn't intend to call the river?

Hand 2. Ruuuuuv pokah rong taaahayme! Instashove.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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minSim
Old 02-23-2008, 10:11 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I call both hands pretty quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
1). flop c/r works good in unraised pots 100BB deep w/ non nut draws, weak top pairs, etc. can't fold river. bet bigger on turn/river.
Could you clearify this a bit?
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The Odds God
Old 02-23-2008, 11:27 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 is standard, now you have to fold, but it is close, since this idiot posted UTG. Against this guy, I actually wouldn't mind a push here because he might convince himself you are bluffing and I think he is just as likely to call an all in than a small bet with a smaller flush but he won't raise you without an Ac usually.

Hand 2, I would 3bet the flop, but your line is good also. Now snapcall.
The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
 
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ChrisTheFish
Old 02-23-2008, 11:53 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Damnnnn im such a nit

In hand 2, i'm more inclined to 3 bet shove OOP..

Villain has been @ the table for a short while, havn't seen him get out of line or do anything crazy.
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nutsinho
Old 02-23-2008, 01:08 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 1 is fold
2 is OMG CALL WHAT ARE YOU DOING???
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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BigLRIP
Old 02-23-2008, 06:38 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
1 is fold
2 is OMG CALL WHAT ARE YOU DOING???
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will641
Old 02-23-2008, 06:54 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
Hand 1 - UTG+1 posted? You have to call river for that reason only.
where is the logic in this? since he posted he is incapable of having the :Ac:, or a boat?
Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
 
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The Odds God
Old 02-23-2008, 07:06 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
Hand 1 - UTG+1 posted? You have to call river for that reason only.
where is the logic in this? since he posted he is incapable of having the :Ac:, or a boat?
Since he posted UTG, he will call you with lower flushes. However, he probably won't raise you. That's why now you have to fold. But if you are not results oriented, I like the push on the river against this guy.
The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
 
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sauce123
Old 02-24-2008, 01:46 AM #16 (permalink)  
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hand 2 should be all in on flop 100%
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Viscount Vic
Old 02-24-2008, 06:17 AM #17 (permalink)  

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1. fold
2. fold on flop, board is paired, you could be drawing dead and believe it or not, you dont actually have anything yet but queen high. Give it up. Turn is definate fold.

Overall you played it better then most would.
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Galapogos
Old 02-24-2008, 04:07 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viscount Vic
2. fold on flop, board is paired, you could be drawing dead
What about all the times you're not?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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Ash256
Old 02-24-2008, 05:36 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viscount Vic
2. fold on flop, board is paired, you could be drawing dead and believe it or not, you dont actually have anything yet but queen high. Give it up. Turn is definate fold.
You've missed the point. Think about what villain has here.
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thizzSantaCruz
Old 02-24-2008, 05:58 PM #20 (permalink)  
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anyone like 3 betting the flop in hand 1
Flopping quads and boats like its my job
 
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The Odds God
Old 02-24-2008, 11:08 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
anyone like 3 betting the flop in hand 1
I don't like it, since it is a limped pot.
The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
 
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mixchange
Old 02-25-2008, 12:48 AM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Odds God
Quote:
Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
Hand 1 - UTG+1 posted? You have to call river for that reason only.
where is the logic in this? since he posted he is incapable of having the :Ac:, or a boat?
Since he posted UTG, he will call you with lower flushes. However, he probably won't raise you. That's why now you have to fold. But if you are not results oriented, I like the push on the river against this guy.

I guess it is a fold, but I think a call is fine too... just soooo hard for me to drop a pot like this to a poster. A lot of these guys are playing for fun and love to bluff. I call down very light against posters. IMO, this is closer than you might think because of the donkage factor
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 03-03-2008, 07:52 AM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
I call both hands pretty quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
1). flop c/r works good in unraised pots 100BB deep w/ non nut draws, weak top pairs, etc. can't fold river. bet bigger on turn/river.
Could you clearify this a bit?


let's say chris had lead out on the flop with 9-7 or some other 9-x hand instead of K-2cc. If he gets raised on the flop, he is in a difficult spot where he almost always (definitely in this case) has to fold his top pair. One reason why he has to do this is because he is going to be out of position in a pot where the stacks are relatively deep since the pot wasn't raised preflop.

If his flop bet is called, there are many turn cards chris does not want to see (i.e. clubs, J, Q, K, A). Usually he would lead out and have to fold if raised, shut down if called. Even on a relatively safe turn chris can't really put more pressure on his opponent on the river because his hand is too weak, so he has to hope for a check/check on the river.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 03-03-2008, 07:55 AM #24 (permalink)  
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 oh yeah and so then the benefit of a flop check/raise then is that you have the potential to take the pot down without the hand progressing further (particularly good with weak top pair type hands), or if you have a draw you can often build a bigger pot if the turn/river completes your hand (bigger than in situations where you lead out and your bet was called).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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minSim
Old 03-03-2008, 01:41 PM #25 (permalink)  
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Vi,

To summarize, we don't like betting out flop, because:
1. we have to fold to a flop raise
2. we have to bet/fold most turns
3. when turn called we have a difficult river spot, where we likely have to check/fold.

I don't really get how these don't apply to a flop check/raise, with TPMK. Don't all of them apply to the c/r as well?

Also, yes we do take it down with a flop c/r often....but aren't we as well with leading out?
Ofcourse more with a c/r, but it's only folding out worse hands isn't it.

Or is it that a flop c/r will fold out about all mediocre or air hands from villains range and makes his range more face up, so we can play more perfect against it relatively easy on future streets?
(which will include c/fing a decent amount without having to worry about folding the best hand I assume)
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 03-03-2008, 11:26 PM #26 (permalink)  
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 yeah i think you pretty much got it, and yeah it would apply to TPMK as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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