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euphoricism
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01-11-2008, 07:16 PM
Post subject: Short stack theory -- cbet or shove?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Hero has $20 (40bb)
EUPHOLOGI - Posts small blind $0.25
BREWSNPGLT - Posts big blind $0.50
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to EUPHOLOGI [Qs Qc]
HOKIEWA - Folds
KATER777 - Folds
MARKPURCELL - Folds
N7623C - Raises $2.50 to $2.50
EUPHOLOGI - Raises $6 to $6.25 Trying to set up about a 1:1 SPR ratio where the pot on the flop will equal my remaining stack
BREWSNPGLT - Folds
HOKIEWA - Folds
KATER777 - Folds
N7623C - Calls $3.75
*** FLOP *** [Kh 10s 8s]
EUPHOLOGI - pot is $12.50, hero has $13.50 left.
My standard line is to just shove. If hes got me beat, he calls. If I'm ahead, he folds (though he does sometimes call dominated) Simple stuff. But I'm wondering if I'm throwing money away doing so. Would a smaller cbet on the flop allow me to fold if reraised? Surely villain can only reraise me on the flop with a real hand because he has to believe I can't fold.
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PapalRage
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Notre Dame
Posts: 309
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villian could also push over with any decent draw though, which would be a huge fundamental theory of poker mistake to fold to. i know that on many occasions i have decided to gamble with a straight or flush draw solely because my opp was a short stack. i imagine villian would push AK at you pre here so any hand he might have a K in it is just bad play by him pre which will cost him in the long run. i think you have to push here. also, would you auto push any turn if he flat called for whatever reason?
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ndultimate.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
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whenever I have about 1.5 times the pot left, I prefer a shove instead of a cbet, since I'm comito
here, you have to find out (via reads and whatnot) if that K is a big part of his range. if so, shoving is burning money
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
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I don't shortstack so take this with a bag of salt: As played, if we're felting on this flop (which I don't think I'd want to do given preflop), then c/c, c/rai gets more value from lesser hands, no? If it checks through we shove the turn.
Can't see how you can c-bet this flop and consider folding with most of your stack in. I think I'd rather shove pre if I'm 3-betting this short, but that could be completely off base.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
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We're in position, and its checked to us, warpe
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
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Jack: the K is a tiny tiny tiny part of his range. The only K he *should* have here is KQ and I'm holding two of the Qs. I dont really fear the K. I do fear checking through and letting him have a free turn, that would be suicide. So I have to bet. The question is how much.
I'm starting to think it really doesnt matter.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
We're in position, and its checked to us, warpe
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O RLY? neat trick from the sb.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I think a bunch of crap will get it in here so I either push or c/c an allin
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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more preflop, id prefer a just under pot size shove on flop...yes shove flop always
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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shove then click get chips or w/e the button says and buy in full.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I don't think he even folds a pair so just shove it in.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
We're in position, and its checked to us, warpe
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O RLY? neat trick from the sb. |
Bah!
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b-rabbit
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: virginia
Posts: 207
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
We're in position, and its checked to us, warpe
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O RLY? neat trick from the sb. |
haha total pwnage.
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do the right thing.
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