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bjsaust
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05-29-2009, 01:18 AM
Post subject: Set deep (100nl)
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Villain is taggy, around 20/17 with 9% 3bet. 80% cbet with 100% (3/3) in 3bet pots.
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($129.41)
SB ($307.55)
BB ($303)
UTG ($70.92)
MP ($48.85)
Hero (CO) ($228.70)
Preflop: Hero is CO with 8 , 8
2 folds, Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, SB raises $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $9
Flop: ($26) 3, A , 8 (2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero calls $16
Turn: ($58) 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $40
Hows sizing? I figure its a spot he's likely either going to call or not so went to the larger size. Take a different line altogether?
{edited title: jyms}
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Just playing to improve.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Fold preflop.
Bet enough on the turn to have a under psb shove on river. so 50 on the turn shove river.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Even over 200bbs deep fold this oop? Because he has enough bluffs in his range?
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Just playing to improve.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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um ok somebody who does the math thing can figure out if you have set odds or not. I was thinking more of a playability thing and yeah he's not gonna be air tight here with his 3 betting range so that's bad for you. I guess its probably ok its just gonna be pretty hard to play post.
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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I think he has the set odds. It's a small 3bet given stack size and he has position post flop, fwiw.
But What's opponent's range for 3betting from the SB? 9% 3bet overall and he is raising a Cutoff open. Lot's of weak aces, PPs and suited connectors in his range?
Given flop bet sizing, turn bet might be too strong unless you know SB can't fold TP or will spazz. Checking behind seems bad, but I'd imagine you will get a fold on this turn alot.
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your banner burned here
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I dont think sizing will make much difference. There might be some chance he'll call $30 but not $40, but not a lot I wouldn't think. The real question is whether theres value checking behind, but meh, I have a set and I'd like to play a big pot against his pot controlling AX than win a medium pot against something.
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Just playing to improve.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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he's only calling one street with his week Ax hands and all underpairs he has, and the river is the place to get value from those hands. I suppose he can have a AT type hand here trying to pot control, but i think thats a small part of his range in this spot.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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ya I think checking behind and getting some value from SB's entire range on river is probably your best shot at moneys.
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your banner burned here
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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I def call pre, we have set odds this deep plus we're in position. I actually bet smaller on turn if it's me as I have so many floats in my range on this sort of board vs alot of regs that I want to balance my bet sizing when i have air/ strong ace etc, I.e I'm never betting $50 with a bluff in this spot, probs something like $38-40 this deep and when we're 100-125 bbs deep something like $22-28. However I doubt you have an agro dynamic with this guy and his range is fairly polarised to hands that will call another barrel (ax +) or simply c/f, so I guess betting bigger for value i.e. $46-50 is fine.
God theres so many dynamics to take into consideration, against several regs I play against checking behind is better as they figure you never check turn with a hand better than aj+ so they c/r river as a bluff, whilst some spaz to small turn bets, flop minraises etc. At 100nl this guy is probs straight forward so just c/c, bet, bet is fine.
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by speedcake
ya I think checking behind and getting some value from SB's entire range on river is probably your best shot at moneys.
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Nonononono! You can't win his whole stack if you check behind!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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I'm def. betting the turn against pretty much everyone. I don't get why we think he's going to c/c the the river more than the turn if it goes check-check. If anything our hand looks more like a float if we bet the turn.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Well obviously I'd like his whole stack. He never pot controls AK/AQ here this deep?
I only have a bit over 100 hands on him, so no real dynamics. Only time we've seen a flop in a 3-bet pot he raised utg, I 3-bet from the blinds and he folded to my cbet on a QJXr flop.
I felt it was less about getting his stack, than the likelyhood his holdings are polarised to those that call and those that fold, is there that much that an unknown TAG will fold to a turn bet but would call a river bet? Do they fold QQ/KK in a spot like this or call one street and evaluate the river?
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Just playing to improve.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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Why are we aiming to maximize the pot size and not maximise value against the range of hands you beat?
Bet whatever you would on a float. Then value bet the river barring some reason to play the hand differently.
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I think the turn is a good spot to check IF YOU HAVE NOTHING
and then you bet the river, your hand looks like a pot controlling ace and you get folds because people won't give you a credit for a float if you check turn to bet river (this of course assumes the villain is cogniscent of floats)
when you do have something bet the turn, it looks like a float
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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This is silly, hero played it correct.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
This is silly, hero played it correct.
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what pps are you calling pf here? I normally call TT/JJ and shove QQ+, 88-
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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We r 200bb deep so I'd call JJ- like always.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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We r 200bb deep so I'd call JJ- like always.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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150bb+ deep against opponents that don't suck my 3-bet range is very polarized. I flat QQ a lot outside of certain high-aggression spots.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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pf is a standard call in my book, definitely bet the turn we need to attemt to play for stacks here.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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I don't think going for his stack is necessarily the right idea. There isn't a whole lot that he's playing that way that he'll be stacking off with. I bet about the same on the turn because it looks like a float, and hopefully he was trying to induce a bet or makes a hero call, but I think he's going to fold a lot on the turn or river.
If I was floating in this spot I'd check the turn behind and make a v-bet sized bluff on the river, because it looks much stronger imo.
And what's all that talk about set value? U haz pair imo... also: position.
I could be raising or calling depending on dynamic. I don't think I ever folded in this spot. You definitely don't need to get your implied whatever back when you hit a set... unless you just give up when you miss - which would be terribad against this guy.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
If I was floating in this spot I'd check the turn behind and make a v-bet sized bluff on the river, because it looks much stronger imo.
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Doesn't this get called a shitload more by all his PPs?
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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FlyingSaucy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Watching the kids
Posts: 1,603
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Deep wouldn't you not want to float turn though and keep building? The problem is in not letting him catch anything. If the A is a scare on the flop for him then it's not going to help giving a free river. Higher pps can out draw, and crappier broadways that didn't hit flop but hit river are still scared of the ace.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Is this really a thread?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FlyingSaucy
Deep wouldn't you not want to float turn though and keep building? The problem is in not letting him catch anything. If the A is a scare on the flop for him then it's not going to help giving a free river. Higher pps can out draw, and crappier broadways that didn't hit flop but hit river are still scared of the ace.
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are we really worried about giving someone a free shot at a 2 outer? and if we're capable of floating this flop, and we check through the turn, villain can call a river bet with 99+ as well as sometimes with KQ type hands that catch a pair on the river.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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I'd rather have a shot at maximizing value for this one hand than a crap shoot for his whole stack.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
If I was floating in this spot I'd check the turn behind and make a v-bet sized bluff on the river, because it looks much stronger imo.
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Doesn't this get called a shitload more by all his PPs? |
Depends who I'm playing. But against a somewhat thinking player, I kind of like to delay the betting. You're representing a reasonable range, like an ace with a middle kicker - like you don't think you can get value for two more streets.
Against a level-0 donk who doesn't waste a calorie thinking about your hand, sure, I'd bet the turn as a bluff... it really looks like a textbook float though.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Why does such a std hand get a million replies?
Obv call pre, flat or even raise flop if u have the image for it, obv bet turn... 40-45$ is fine
you have to try really hard to mess up in this spot
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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WELL OF FUCKING COURSE HES GOING TO BE FOLDING A LOT ON THE GOD DAMN TURN OR RIVER. HE CHECKED THE FUCKING TURN. HE PROBABLY DOESNT FUCKING HAVE AK+ A WHOLE LOT. WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD THAT MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD CHECK THE TURN AND BET THE RIVER, MAKING YOUR HAND LOOK EVEN LESS LIKE A BLUFF. YOU HAVE EIGHTS FULL OF GOD DAMN THREES WITH A TON OF STACK BEHIND. FFS. AND WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE FOLD IN POSITION PREFLOP OVER 200BB DEEP. I WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO FOLD 85 OFFSUIT HERE.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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{locked}
'nuff said...
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...id-t86164.html
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