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Fnord
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11-25-2008, 09:39 AM
Post subject: SB vs BB Hand vs Fnord (for you to misread)
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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Hero is a TAggy regular in this game. I think he can get kinda spazzy at times.
Fnord is me.
We've gone deep in pots a few times in the past and flipped QQ vs AK for 150bb. Overall a healthy relationship filled with mistrust.
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($200.00)
CO ($200.00)
BTN ($264.55)
Hero (SB) ($392.00)
Fnord (BB) ($193.00)
Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is SB  
3 folds, Hero raises to $6, Fnord calls $4
Flop:    ($12, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, Fnord calls $10
Turn:  ($32, 2 players)
Hero bets $26, Fnord raises to $78, Hero goes all-in
How'd he do?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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From a microstaker;
Depending on how much FE he has (seems like very little) and if you're ever doing this with a draw, it's very marginally +EV to very +EV.
If you only show up here with very good hands it's better for him to call for his straight/flush.
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kettleofish
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Helllllo Richard
Posts: 333
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*Standard never played this high disclaimer*
Well i guess b/3b is better than c/raising (at least he puts you to a decision for all your chips!!1111!). The healthy mistrust would have to make him think a lot of your range is air here for this is to be a good shove tho IMO, as it's tough for you to fold any of your draws once you raise the turn and they'll all be better than his? I guess if you've got a club combo draw at least he has his 12 outs.
P.S I'm curious as to what line the better players here take with 'hero's' hand here postflop? I'd never open 47ss bvb against someone like Fnord so i'm stumped as to the best way to play it.
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There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Is there's such mistrust why are you trying to play crap like 47s vs his BB?
.... kidding kidding....
Anyway, I don't think I like his push. Since he knows who you are, I don't think he would expect you to raise here without expecting to get it in since the turn is the ultimate non-bluff card. Even your likely semi-bluffs, pair with turned flush draws, are still ahead and there's no way you're folding after you raise.
So he has to put you on total air a lot for this to be any good, and I don't think you would have it here, since this line doesn't look like anything you likely won't try an air bluff really ever.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Really don't like hero's push. I'd rather c/raise this turn before b/3betting this turn if I was hero.
I think fnord has at worst JTcc here or something.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kettleofish
I'd never open 47ss bvb against someone like Fnord so i'm stumped as to the best way to play it.
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*shrug* I defended with Queen Five offsuit. 
Next orbit he still raised my BB from the SB...
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I don't think it's that bad. Fnord is repping the top of his range and Fnord is spewy enough that our FE makes this ok.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Fnord is repping the top of his range.
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Given the board texture, I think the flop flat discounts a lot of hands.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I really don't think so. The flop flat would suggest that but Fnord is clever enough to flat and readjust to any turns which might discount the value of QJ.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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it seems like a super close/annoying fold as played but a 100% fold preflop. play super tight from the sb and insanely loose from the bb in blind battles guys, take it from me.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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...it depends on how the BB plays. Against me, it's probably correct unless you have a lot of HU experience or I think you're a nit.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Nuts, bundle all your posts in a book.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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it seems like a super close/annoying fold as played but a 100% fold preflop. play super tight from the sb and insanely loose from the bb in blind battles guys, take it from me.
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OK so I'm going to bite on this.
Folded to us in SB. BB in standard TAGfish who reraises 6.5% and cold-calls 8% (I have this stat on my hud but in general 2+2 over the last few years has completely drilled cold-calling out of the mentalities of all the TAGfish and none of them do it that much).
Assuming I can play decently postflop against this guy how am I not correct in opening 75% to 85% of hands here? I think it's going to be so immediately profitable that it will be hard to lose enough postflop to destroy the overall profitability of the situation.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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I agree with playing insanely loose from the BB vs SB opens though.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Against players who fold their BB too much, it's a really easy open if you know enough to just give up on a fair % of flops because they are playing too tight of a range and have position and are probably pretty miffed at you for picking on them so they might be picking a spot where not much is going on with their other 7 tables to play some actual poker back at you.
That said... I think proper HU strategy has us playing less than 85% of our hands on an OOP open.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
That said... I think proper HU strategy has us playing less than 85% of our hands on an OOP open.
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Reword this please? Don't really get what you mean.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I really don't like what fnord did on the turn with nearly any hand.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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I think fnords range is 90% draws.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
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Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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well ofc we arent folding vs some random pretty bad or very tight tagfish. its not really a blind 'battle' if our opponent sucks and we can mechanically exploit him with PFR+cbet. im pretty sure fnord is not the type of guy you want to be opening very loose against though.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
That said... I think proper HU strategy has us playing less than 85% of our hands on an OOP open.
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Reword this please? Don't really get what you mean. |
OOP open, as in the SB is first to act on every betting round. As opposed to the correct HU blind structure that encourages more action by giving the SB the button.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I really don't like what fnord did on the turn with nearly any hand.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I think fnords range is 90% draws.
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Oh that turn was such a wonderful card. I'm repping so few hands here and that's a great thing with so much mistrust in the air...
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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ATcc for Fnord?
maybe I'm stop n going the river on any black card if I'm Hero
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
ATcc for Fnord?
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I already said that I had Queen Five and it wasn't even s00ted.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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So?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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he should fold preflop and turn is probably close between betting and c/c, as played he should fold or call depending on how optimistic his math is, shoving is the worst option
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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Fnord is my hero. I'm guessing you had AK and won the flip?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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lol
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by baudib
Fnord is my hero. I'm guessing you had AK and won the flip?
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I hope you are visited by the fairy of Largamenthon.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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