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mixchange
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05-10-2009, 08:57 PM
Post subject: Running bad, and coaching
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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1. All in EV says I'm -21 BI on the year (and -11BI for last yr). I don't know what to think. The Economics degree in me says that AIEV is just one small part of the larger luck equation in poker and that its possible that I was "luckier" than it might seem. Even though I'm under on the Flop-A-Set meter, perhaps when I flopped a set I ran into AA/KK on wet flops a lot and stacked people. Perhaps I'm running godly when I'm drawing on the turn, etc.
I don't know how to react to this. I've heard Sauce call AIEV "the aids of poker" in his blog. Part of me wants to just never look at AI EV and just play.
What do you do? Do you pay attention to AIEV much? What does it mean to you?
2. Coaching
I'm gonna get a coach 100-150/hr. Possibles at 100-150hr are Chipchucker5 (2-4 reg, 5bb/100), 0evg0, and sixpeppers/actiondj (CR instructor, I know him from college but he'd be a bit more expensive than CC5 or EVG).
Any coaching tips/referalls appreciated.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I hate AIEV, I'd love to turn it off altogether in HEM.
When I'm running below EV then I'm annoyed that luck is against me, when I'm running above EV then I'm annoyed that my good results are due to luck. I try to ignore it now.
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Just playing to improve.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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How big are you playing?
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I checked my AIEV and I was under
so now I don't feel bad when I suck out on people
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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1) Looking at AIEV is fine as long as you realize that, as you wrote, it's "is just one small part of the larger luck equation in poker". You've obviously been relatively unlucky in one phase of the game recently but that shouldn't affect how you analyze and try to improve your game.
2) I don't know the first two guys you mentioned but I've watched the third's deep-stacked videos on CR and thought they were horrible.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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doesn't danny charge like $150-$200 per hour, seems ridiculous that ppl like sixpeppers can charge something anywhere near a guy as good as him.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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He did, but he doesnt coach now. Would be interesting to have an up to date list of FTR regs who coach.
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Just playing to improve.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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I look at all in ev once per month laugh about it then forget it. It really messes with your head and should be ignored if possible. It also doesn't show the big picture at all so I don't worry about it. I just realize everytime I win a flip I didn't make 1 buy in I only made like 5% of the pot.
I don't really know about any of those coaches you mentioned.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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i'll probably start coaching again, 100/hr
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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I don't know chipchucker, but I definitely do know that 0evg0 would be an outright awful choice for a coach. I've met DJ before, not spoken to him a ton, but have no idea what games hes playing in now as I never see him in the 2/4 or 3/6 games and haven't heard from him in quite some time.... I don't recall ever having a super ton of respect for his game though.
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AnTman_69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
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Started getting coached by marshall around the 50k~~ hand mark. Has definitely improved my game a tonne.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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I've never been convinced that mid stakes instructors on training sites are worth their asking price. I'd say get coaching from the good players here. Just pm a person u respect and ask them. I imagine they are charging close to the instructors and way better coaches. They also will at least care for you more.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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FNORD: I'm playing 100NL these days but I'd really like to be back playing 200NL like I did most of last year. I sucked the end of 2008, switched to Omaha for a couple months, and now I'm trying get back on track. This month I'm doing very well so I hope to move back to 200 with the help of coaching.
I didn't want to move back to 200 until I felt like I was beating 100 pretty hard, and I have 7bb/100 over the last 32K hands so seems like a good time to move up. I just have trouble dealing with a lot of the aggro 200NL regs and I get frustrated by constant PF variance wars. I also have badly losing non showdown line, which is the most obvious area for improvement.
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It would be great to have a list of "FTR approved" coaches. Renton, for some reason I thought you were on a poker hiatus, otherwise I would have asked you. Definitely will AIM you..
I brought up 0evg0 because he had multiple students post graphs in the 2+2 coaching thread, all highly reccomended him and showed where they got coaching and it definitely helped them...same thing with chipchucker5. I would like to get some coaching from a good midstakes 6max player at some point. (I know Renton plays 6M but mostly FR, which I am playing about 40% of the time now)
I have to say Marshall is looking pretty impressive these days too. Props dude. One month he is stressed out playing 25NL, another month he is absolutely destroying 200nl. Definitely knew he could become his Porsche self again.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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I really don't think you should have to pay more than 100/hr anymore to get coaching from anyone playing 1/2-2/4 unless they are a very big winner at 2/4 ....If you check PTR for the highest winrates at 1/2, mine is right near the top, and I don't even make 100/hr playing it, so I don't see how anyone else playing those games can get away w/ charging that much. The biggest 2/4 winners are likely making 150-200/hr so I suppose those guys could get away w/ charging 100, but even then, there are maybe only 10-15 guys...maybe not even that many doing this well at 2/4.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I wonder if FTR should set up a coaching page or something? I'd be interested in who still coaches and their rates here as well. I'd much prefer to go with an FTRer I respect than some random dude.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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I mostly play live. I probably could give a useful hour or two of value to most mid-stakes online players about spots where I do very well.
The thing about poker is that we all have strengths/weaknesses and what you get out of it is a function of how well your coach communicates and how your strengths line up.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I'd go with Renton especially at his prices
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I'd go with Renton especially at his prices
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As I understand, you don't coach anymore. How come?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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As i get back into poker again and make more money playing, and as my demand goes up, that rate is likely to go up. Frankly I don't really care what I'm "worth", as its not really a matter of that, but I'm pretty sure I'm at least on par with most of the 200-300 dollar people.
I used to get really hung up on the fact that there are so many hacks who are charging 3-4 times more than they are worth. But I kinda realized that its just a function of what and how many people are willing to pay these people and thats how people choose their prices.
I would just suggest you tread very very carefully. In today's poker climate a lot of people are coaching because they suck too much to play. Do your research and talk to references.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
As i get back into poker again and make more money playing, and as my demand goes up, that rate is likely to go up. Frankly I don't really care what I'm "worth", as its not really a matter of that, but I'm pretty sure I'm at least on par with most of the 200-300 dollar people.
I used to get really hung up on the fact that there are so many hacks who are charging 3-4 times more than they are worth. But I kinda realized that its just a function of what and how many people are willing to pay these people and thats how people choose their prices.
I would just suggest you tread very very carefully. In today's poker climate a lot of people are coaching because they suck too much to play. Do your research and talk to references.
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I should start coaching 
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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You really want to find someone who is both a good winner, AND a good coach. Some good winners may just not be good at teaching. References would definitely be a good idea.
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Just playing to improve.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
I would just suggest you tread very very carefully. In today's poker climate a lot of people are coaching because they suck too much to play. Do your research and talk to references.
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This for sure.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
I would just suggest you tread very very carefully. In today's poker climate a lot of people are coaching because they suck too much to play. Do your research and talk to references.
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This for sure. |
this
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,608
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I've gotten coaching from Zook, ISF, and Renton. All 3 are well aware of the game, and can convey their thoughts to others very well. I recommend all 3 of them to others, and will likely be trying to get sessions from them in the future.
As far as the coaching list goes, I would be interested in that as well, and would probably do good to both bring in clientele for the coaches, and make it easier for the members to find.
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ajwcloughie
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
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Hello everyone
My name is Adam and I have been playing poker for a couple of years. I have always played a little on tourneys and sit and go's, but i have moved over to cash tables in the last 4-5 months. At first i found it extremely difficult getting used to it and was scared about seeing my actually bankroll going down, rather then tournement chips. I then read some articles and started to play alot better. I finally got up to 5nl and then started struggling again.
I decided to get a coach in the end and i am very glad I did. He has played for years and plays at 100nl. He only charges 25 dollars and I have made more then that during the hours he has watched me, so technically the coaching hasn't cost me anything. I have started to play soo much better and I have stopped playing so tight. I am now well on my way to progressing to the higher levels and with my coaches help, hopefully towards make a steady profit.
Anyway i feel the best way of finding a good coach is through word of mouth and I have my holdem manager stats to back up how much I have improved. If you are interested then send him a meesage on skype. His username is roy.ellerbe. By telling others I am hoping that the more students he has, the more group sessions we can have.
Thanks for your time and talk to me on skype if you want a screenshot of my stats. My username is adam.williams17
Look forward to hearing from you
Adam
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