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Irisheyes
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11-02-2007, 07:48 PM
Post subject: Royally messed up AKs 4bet pot hand
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
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I guess I'll start with preflop, I wasn't playing on my normal computer so I don't have stats but the villain seemed TAGish and was multitabling.
200NL, $300 effective. Villain opens to $8 in MP, CO calls and I make it $34 OTB with A K. Folds around and villain 4bets to $60. The CO folds and action's on me. I need 19% equity to call and against a range of AA/KK only pokerstove tells me my equity is 23%. Should I call?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
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doesn't pokerstove equate your equity to seeing all 5 cards though
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
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Oh I dunno, that would make sense I guess. Anyone know?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
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I think this could just be a frustrating fold, reverse implied odds IMO. You going to ever be comfortable geting the money in on a Axx or Kxx board really?
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Shove wtf?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
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wtf at "shove wtf"
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gabe
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you are squeezing so he doesnt have to have AA KK here, stick it in
alot of times u guys have te same hand
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jackvance
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11-02-2007, 11:17 PM
Post subject: Re: Royally messed up AKs 4bet pot hand
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#8 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
200NL, $300 effective. Villain opens to $8 in MP, CO calls and I make it $34 OTB with A K . Folds around and villain 4bets to $60. The CO folds and action's on me. I need 19% equity to call and against a range of AA/KK only pokerstove tells me my equity is 23%. Should I call? |
Well you need to call 26/131=19.8%.. but you can only really compare that with your equity if it would be allin by then. Here you have $240 left to play for so the equity calculation becomes a lot more complicated. If you intend to go allin anyway no matter what vs his range of AA-KK then you'll need more than 266/611=43.5% equity..
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Robb
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11-03-2007, 01:18 AM
Post subject: Re: Royally messed up AKs 4bet pot hand
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#9 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Villain opens to $8 in MP, CO calls and I make it $34 OTB with A K . Folds around and villain 4bets to $60. |
Noob question: he bets, you bet, he 4-bets? Isn't this the third bet? But it's 4-betting.
I've been confused about the 3-bet/4-bet lingo on the first round. I think I get it now, though: the blind counts as the first bet here, so the first raise (villain) is a 2-bet? Then irish's action is a 3-bet preflop? That makes villain's rr a 4-bet. Do I have that right?
Then, on all other streets, a 4-bet means something different. But there it makes sense to me.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
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lots of 3 and 4 light betting if its party@200nl so i shove and get called by 88 ftw.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
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Standard shove with 100BBs but with 150BBs?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Maybe i read way too much into bet sizing but i like a fold.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Maybe i read way too much into bet sizing but i like a fold.
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huh, it could go either way imo. I feel like that size is more likely a weaker hand.
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Irisheyes
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OK so basically it should be shove or fold which is pretty obvious to me now that you all say it. I err on the side of folding though just on my general impression of the guy.
Anyways due to my super poker skillz I chose the even more +EV line of calling.
Flop: A K 5 Pot: $130
He leads for $80, What it do?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
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you're going broke, but let him put the money in
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sauce123
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Shove wtf?
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
OK so basically it should be shove or fold which is pretty obvious to me now that you all say it. I err on the side of folding though just on my general impression of the guy.
Anyways due to my super poker skillz I chose the even more +EV line of calling.
Flop: A K 5 Pot: $130
He leads for $80, What it do? |
wheres the decision? You'll be broke in two streets regardless
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
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ummm if we call we can't think of folding when we hit, you might as well have folded pre. The probabilities of AA/KK are just so low i cant find a fold here.
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Ash256
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
OK so basically it should be shove or fold which is pretty obvious to me now that you all say it. I err on the side of folding though just on my general impression of the guy.
Anyways due to my super poker skillz I chose the even more +EV line of calling.
Flop: A K 5 Pot: $130
He leads for $80, What it do? |
Here's a funny one, call, check behind on turn and shove river regardless of whether he bets or checks..
If he bets the turn, whatever, we have to stack off.
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breathweapon
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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That flop sucks, because now Kings have to be taken into account. I don't think he would have CBet there with QQ-JJ, so at best you're splitting even to another AK or going broke.
That's the best reason to get the $ in preflop, if you run into Aces or Kings, you run into Aces or Kings, but at least you put the pressure on him to drop his AK instead of drop your AK and you may even get them to drop their QQ-JJ.
I hate "LOL WTF SHOVE" arguments, but that hand doesn't have the EV it needs to see the flop against a range of AA-JJ + AK, so you really need to make a 5 card decision or fold the hand, and there's no reason to fold that hand in a cash game with out a read.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
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why are we calling preflop with no plan.
if we dont fold preflop were committed to anything we catch.
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|~|ypermegachi
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there's really only so many routes to take with this hand...
a) fold.
b) push.
c) call.
i) fold whiffed flop
ii) possibly bet if checked to or check for free card
iii) if you hit you stack off.
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breathweapon
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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If you hit your draw, you push.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
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omg what happened?
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
OK so basically it should be shove or fold which is pretty obvious to me now that you all say it. I err on the side of folding though just on my general impression of the guy.
Anyways due to my super poker skillz I chose the even more +EV line of calling.
Flop: A K 5 Pot: $130
He leads for $80, What it do? |
you pray for running clubs. you have no choice but to stack off...i dont care when. wait, im sorry..........WHY STOP CALLING NOW? 
and, btw, breathweapon's wpp just took a nose dive...as did mine. lol.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Silly String
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Full House
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There are much worse places to go broke with AK. I love having an A & K on the flop. Chances he has both of the outstanding A's or K's = not goot. I play passive to get QQ or JJ to put another bet in on the river.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Jack Sawyer
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pf, call is good.
postflop, spenda's line is twtg.
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Irisheyes
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I've decided I should have folded to this guy preflop. That was the biggest mistake. Once I get to the flop I have to get AI. I think his 4bet range is squarely AA/KK.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I've decided I should have folded to this guy preflop. That was the biggest mistake. Once I get to the flop I have to get AI. I think his 4bet range is squarely AA/KK.
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One of the reasons this is a great place to 4-bet for him.
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Irisheyes
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You mean for value or as a bluff?
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
You mean for value or as a bluff?
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Well considering that you think he always has AA or KK here... a bluff
Sorry if i'm coming off as an ass, i'm just a little salty that i failed to convince you that this is a shove pre 
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sauce123
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the only thing 100% clear about this hand is that u should never be calling preflop
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Irisheyes
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
You mean for value or as a bluff?
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Well considering that you think he always has AA or KK here... a bluff
Sorry if i'm coming off as an ass, i'm just a little salty that i failed to convince you that this is a shove pre |
He no problem. I'm basing my decision that folding is best on information that I didn't include in my post. I mean this table wasn't playing all aggro. like your average FT/Stars 100NL table and the guy isn't a reg and blah blah which leads me to believe that he isn't 4bet 'bluffing'. Under the game conditions that you are assuming I agree that it's a standard shove.
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