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Fnord
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11-15-2006, 08:23 AM
Post subject: Routine KoJack hand
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Table is playing weak/tight.
Limper is weak and kinda tight.
SB is kinda loose/weak/bad, but has been caught double barrel bluffing a turned Ace in a small pot with smallish bets.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($233.75)
SB ($146.65)
BB ($232.10)
UTG ($223.95)
MP ($204.90)
Fnord ($204.50)
Preflop: Fnord is CO with J , K .
1 fold, MP calls $2, Fnord raises to $10, 1 fold, SB calls $9, 1 fold, MP folds.
Flop: ($24) 3, 9, 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Fnord checks.
Turn: ($24) J (2 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets $16, SB raises to $36, Fnord ???
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Probably let it go. I think If he had air, he's more likely to try and lead the turn than c/r it. This makes me think he has a hand. 53, 23, something stupid.
Pot is small, but the river bet is going to be relatively large. Hammer him when you hit harder.
.. howd i do?
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
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If you call, what are the chances at a cheap showdown? I'm going back and forth here but I don't think this is ever an always fold.
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griffey24
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11-15-2006, 03:51 PM
Post subject: no good..
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#4 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
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I can't see us being good here very often.
The only hands we beat are QJ and any 9 that thinks we're stealing the pot on the turn after our flop check through.
We're probably looking at, at least, a $50 river bet where only two jacks will likely help us. An A or K may slow down the action if villain doesn't have the 3...
I probably fold, though depends on reads ofcourse...
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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TT/88 sort of hand?
Was he awful enough to expect you to bet here if you missed and he caught a piece?
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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Wow. I have no idea. For me, he either wanted to check raise you so bad he tried twice, or he caught the same J you did. Maybe AJ or JJ. I don't think he called a 5BB raise from the SB with a 3 in his hand, if he did I'd pay him off, but I'm no Fnord. With the weak checkraise my $$ on TT.
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griffey24
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11-15-2006, 07:38 PM
Post subject: range
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#7 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Why would 10's try to build a pot in this spot, when an overcard finally comes? I would imagine a weak tight player would just call down 10's?
Pocket 9's could certainly be in his range?
I just don't see a hand worse than ours wanting to build this pot out of position. Is a poorly played overpair not in his range? Pocket queens?
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
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This is either a wacky bluff or at least trips (I would guess 99 as most likely monster, but maybe I give his PF cold-call too much credit. I suppose it could transparently be JT or JQ.
The raise is so small, I am tempted to call and see what and if he fires again.. Only has to be a bluff/worse J 20% of the time. I think you have to fold on the river for anything not transparently weak.
Very strange. You would have to be bad to bluff c/r the turn and give up the river, but you'd have to be bad to bluff c/r that small anyway?
is check flop/check raise turn small/lead river big actually a good bluff on this board?
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Fnord
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Fnord insta-calls.
River is 4
He checks, what's our play?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Fnord insta-calls.
River is 4
He checks, what's our play? |
Check behind.. any worse hand is folding.
Then again, I'm a pussy in a lot of these spots, and often take the safe check route, rather than putting myself in a spot to get raised/blown off the hand.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
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Check behind on river
I like the turn call
What kind of hand can call pf, check the flop, have it checked behind, then c/r the turn. I don't know your play too well Fnord but do you run that line a lot whether you hit the turn or not? If he has seen you check behind the flop after your PFR and then bet the turn he may c/r you as a bluff. I just don't see a made hand checking the turn, I mean, where is he gonna make money if he never bets?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
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BET 2 DOLLARS
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Fnord
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Moderator
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Is this a bluff or are we betting for value? If it's for value, we might get twice as much value from betting FOUR DOLLARS!!!!
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Is this a bluff or are we betting for value? If it's for value, we might get twice as much value from betting FOUR DOLLARS!!!! |
LOL. It actually is what you think the likelihood of him check/raising again. I check behind here but one thing I'm not doing is betting $2 in position to give my villain a chance to push me off a made hand.
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ChrisTheFish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Huddersfield, England
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Nh sir, i play it same.
That's one sick avatar.
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sandstorm
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sweden
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I don't know why I laugh. Has FTR damaged my brain?
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>3
this is my favourite part of the post
it looks like angry boobs
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Fnord insta-calls.
River is 4
He checks, what's our play? |
Well, we got our cheap showdown. He wouldn't go for the vaunted double c/r would he???
1/2 pot to extract a lil' extra value from TT/88 JX. But mostly I say this because I am channeling Fnord. I wouldn't bet big faking a bluff on the off chance he has AJ.
standard is the check behind, I am sure that's what I would do in heat of battle, but unless villian is 3th leveling us betting is probably fine.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sandstorm
I don't know why I laugh. Has FTR damaged my brain? |
You laughed because we've all called that bet.
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Lukie
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I'm really interested in this thread because I 100% always make the wrong decision in similar spots.
Usually it seems like you are WB here, but the board is such that there aren't a tremendous amount of hands you are behind. I would be more scared if the board were 359J or something instead of 339J.
I am very good at running into hands like quads, trips top kicker, TPTK, nines full, etc here. I reason that I'm very rarely stronger then AJ/KJ/QJ/JT here, obviously weighted towards the top, and that I have to call all bets because my opponent knows this.
I'd probably call the turn and value bet the river if checked to.. maybe half pot or so. I'm not sure how much value is in that bet though.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
Usually it seems like you are WB here, but the board is such that there aren't a tremendous amount of hands you are behind. I would be more scared if the board were 359J or something instead of 339J.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ultimate Rock
Bingo Badabango
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I confess, I didn't insta-call, it took me about 3 seconds to put him on nothing. But I kinda wish I bet the river too, mixed feelings there but I think 1/2 pot has some nice attributes.
Results:
AQ no g00t. Me suck out g00t when me pray a 4 card frop.
I posted mostly to see how many people would tell me to bet the flop or fold the turn as that was CW about 2-3 months ago.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
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CW? I was going to say why didn't you bet the flop but i know the answer. Second, you bet this turn if you brick too?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
CW?
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Conventional Wisdom
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Second, you bet this turn if you brick too?
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Sometimes, although I was dialing my aggression way down against this chump.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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I DONT THINK HE CALLS 4 DOLLARS MY LINE IS GOOT
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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IM DRUNK GG
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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why do stars donks think AQ/AK is a license to raise when they miss lol.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
why do stars donks think AQ/AK is a license to raise when they miss lol.
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Because nits will fold TP to a raise.
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