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Rockymv
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07-25-2006, 06:08 AM
Post subject: Rivered top pair facing overbet
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
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Villian is 70/3.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($75.37)
UTG ($105.10)
MP ($177.26)
Button ($96.77)
Hero ($104.10)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J , A . Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, Button calls $1, Hero (poster) raises to $3.5, BB calls $3, Button calls $3.
Flop: ($12) 4, 5 , 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $8, BB calls $8, Button folds.
Turn: ($28) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $9, Hero calls $9.
River: ($46) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BB calls $54.37 (All-In), Hero calls $54.37.
Final Pot: $154.74
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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this is a good time to use any timing tells
but usually this is a fold unless you have seen them make big bluffs
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Fold the turn, and calling the river you need a great read. Is he aggro postflop? Is he wild or passive? A 4 is definitely in his hand range here.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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Fold the turn. Calling is just spewing there. Also, consider just check/folding on the flop, and if you are raising pf (I usually wouldn't here) raise it to at least 5. 3.50 is too small. Make them pay to have position on you. I would need more info on this guy besides just stats to make this call. How does he play his draws? How does he play his monsters? How does he respond when shown weakness?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Check/fold flop because:
a) it is a low card flop which makes your opponents less likely to believe that you actually hit something.
b) There is a club draw he could chase.
c) His stats show that he is a loose player who is less likely to fold.
d) there are two opponents on the flop. This makes it more likely that someone either chaught something, or has a 66 type hand and will call your cbet.
Fold turn because you don't have odds..
Fold river because he just chaught 2 pair.
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Rockymv
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
3.50 is too small.
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The converter screwed up, I raised to $4, but your point is taken.
What's your raising range out of the blinds?
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Rockymv
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Check/fold flop because:
a) it is a low card flop which makes your opponents less likely to believe that you actually hit something.
b) There is a club draw he could chase.
c) His stats show that he is a loose player who is less likely to fold.
d) there are two opponents on the flop. This makes it more likely that someone either chaught something, or has a 66 type hand and will call your cbet.
Fold turn because you don't have odds..
Fold river because he just chaught 2 pair.
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At 100NL FR, I got into the habit of cbetting just about every flop, because it almost always did the job. I'll have to break this habit at 6max.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Check/fold flop because:
a) it is a low card flop which makes your opponents less likely to believe that you actually hit something.
b) There is a club draw he could chase.
c) His stats show that he is a loose player who is less likely to fold.
d) there are two opponents on the flop. This makes it more likely that someone either chaught something, or has a 66 type hand and will call your cbet.
Fold turn because you don't have odds..
Fold river because he just chaught 2 pair.
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The flop I think is fine to cbet, even in a 3way pot, Im probably betting atleast 10 though. Paired boards are very unlikely to hit anybody, a thinking player will realize this and often float you, but a 70/3 is not a thinking player. Simply because somebody is loose preflop doesnt mean they call every cbet, Ive seen 80/20s, etc. who fold to 80%+ of cbets over a decent sample; however, that isnt always the case.
Id definitely take into consideration any reads or cbet stats when deciding whether or not to bet this flop though.
why are we calling this turn though, simply because it is a small bet?
This very easily could be a hand like AQ that picked up a pair on the turn and then two pair on the river, or even trips played very weirdly. I dont tink we are ahead enough to profitably call this river, I dont think we should have gotten that far though.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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People love to call raises with pocket pairs.
This flop makes mose pocket pairs look beautiful.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
People love to call raises with pocket pairs.
This flop makes mose pocket pairs look beautiful.
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A 70/3 loves to call raises in general and his range is definitely wider than PPs. Again, I think we need to use either stats or reads here to help our decision and I like some idea of the other player in the pot, but cbetting this isnt bad at all even though Id reccomend closer to a PSB.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Cbetting this is fine, you'll often have the best hand anyway. You can 2nd barrel the turn depending on opps/turn card. And you'll have some equity vs. 66-TT.
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Rockymv
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
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So the concensus is fold the turn, right? I was obv planning on folding it to a real bet but that $9 seemed so small and donkish.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rockymv
So the concensus is fold the turn, right? I was obv planning on folding it to a real bet but that $9 seemed so small and donkish.
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Fold > raise > call IMO.
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RUSS13X
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2
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I think this hand has A/5 written all over it. I don't mind the check on the turn, but after the $9 bet I would raise to $27 here. You could even fold after the turn bet, but I would not call the $9. If he calls the $27, then I check fold the river. The way it was played, I would not call his push on the river.
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