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06-22-2009, 09:06 AM
Post subject: River value shove
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#1 (permalink)
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Villain is 27/19 with a 3b of 5.3 over 122
he seems like a standard tag
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($100)
MP ($164.80)
CO ($262.15)
Hero (Button) ($105.25)
SB ($108.90)
BB ($100)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 6 , A
3 folds, Hero bets $2.50, SB calls $2, 1 fold
Flop: ($6) A , 7, 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB calls $3
Turn: ($12) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, SB calls $8
River: ($28) K (2 players)
SB bets $19, Hero raises to $91.75 (All-In)
now, he could flat 77 on the flop and keep slowplaying on the turn since he's not in danger of being outdrawn
but AK/KK/AA are just not realistic because he would 3b those
what, if anything, am I getting paid off here by? 76/65?
seems like a spot where I should think about flatting, but it just feels nitty as hell
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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meh he probably bet/calls AQ/AJ here even though it's awful so I don't hate shoving, but I'd probably raise small.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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I think a shove is fine.
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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Looks fine.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Not shoving here is ridiculous.
Would be a more interesting/closer spot if you had AK.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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He could also think you're an ace with less than a king kicker that's trying to push him off a split pot, if he thinks you're capable of doing that.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
He could also think you're an ace with less than a king kicker that's trying to push him off a split pot, if he thinks you're capable of doing that.
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fail
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Not shoving here is ridiculous.
Would be a more interesting/closer spot if you had AK.
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It's not ridiculous at all. Shoving AK here without some dynamic would be retarded, with this hand it's close.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I really don't think this particular hand is close at all. You're probably right that AK isn't all that close, but I really think this needs to be a shove.
I rarely see regs take this line with a boat hardly ever, and if they do, the majority of the time their river bet is certainly bigger to look like they are stealing a chop. Either that, or most regs would c/bomb the river.
Not jamming here is putting villain on exactly 7's full (which might not even play the hand like this more than 35% of the time - usually c/r flop or turn or riv) or 67 for which we have blockers. If we are considering 67, then its for sure also possible he has other 6x hands that will pay off riv, and I'd say that its more likely that he plays other 6x hands like this than 67 which might c/r flop with two pair some percentage of the time.
Sure if villain leads like 28 on river, then maybe we can think about flatting, but once he bets 19 I'm not really convinced.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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bet the flop and turn bigger and wtfshove river
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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How can you guys be so certain he's going to bet/call a jam with AJ/AQ, that seems to be the range we're looking to get value from, otherwise I don't see what other hands he's calling a shove with besides KK/77.
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langaan
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 240
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spenda, check your pm please...
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sk8r_daniel
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 330
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It seems like you are maximizing how much you lose when you are beat and making it easier for opponent to fold anything else. I would bet $47.
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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This is 100nl, people are stations. Any 6 is calling, probably any high ace and probably pocket god damn 10's that put you on a 6 or air cuz some people are just that bad.
Against a range it's a shove, putting villain on 1 hand is silly.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
How can you guys be so certain he's going to bet/call a jam with AJ/AQ, that seems to be the range we're looking to get value from, otherwise I don't see what other hands he's calling a shove with besides KK/77.
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Villain doesn't bet the river with AJ/AQ here like ever.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sk8r_daniel
It seems like you are maximizing how much you lose when you are beat and making it easier for opponent to fold anything else. I would bet $47.
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Any raise pot commits you to calling a shove, which he'll do with all better hands, so shoving loses the same as raising less. It's purely a question of winning the maximum from worse hands.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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not close, shove
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
not close, shove
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no this is a clear raise/fold
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
not close, shove
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Care to elaborate why you don't think it's close? There's three combos of 77 and only one combo of 67s. Those are arguably the only hands he'll call with.
Of course villain will make a bad call here a lot, which is why I like a shove as well, but I certainly think it's close, especially with a solid image.
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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I'm going to say shove, but I think it would be closer if you bet 4.50 or bigger on the flop, as I think not raising when you only bet half pot weights his range less towards 77. A lot of people will slowplay when you cbet 3/4 but if you only bet 1/2 pot they feel like they need to raise, as you're not going to be building much of a pot for them. It's also 100nl so I wouldn't give him credit for being able to fold 6x here, also, do you think that leading the river makes his range slightly weaker? when he has the option to C/R?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
a solid image.
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I wonder what that would be like...
I definitely don't have that since villain called it off with AQ
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
villain called it off with AQ
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
He could also think you're an ace with less than a king kicker that's trying to push him off a split pot, if he thinks you're capable of doing that.
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fail |
win 
/results oriented
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
a solid image.
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I wonder what that would be like...
I definitely don't have that since villain called it off with AQ |
Well if you don't have a solid image then why are you asking if you should shove a boat on the river 100BB deep? wtf
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
villain called it off with AQ
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
He could also think you're an ace with less than a king kicker that's trying to push him off a split pot, if he thinks you're capable of doing that.
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fail |
win
/results oriented |
gala-p4's 1-0
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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I don't even get why IOPQ posted this hand. Should I shove a boat? I mean really? and not shoving here putting him on slowplayed 777? wtf
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
I don't even get why IOPQ posted this hand. Should I shove a boat? I mean really? and not shoving here putting him on slowplayed 777? wtf
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ok guilty as charged
I just wanted to see what the hell people could put him on here
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
I don't even get why IOPQ posted this hand. Should I shove a boat? I mean really? and not shoving here putting him on slowplayed 777? wtf
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ok guilty as charged
I just wanted to see what the hell people could put him on here |
So this was a lie? ;p
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
seems like a spot where I should think about flatting, but it just feels nitty as hell
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
bet the flop and turn bigger and wtfshove river
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
I don't even get why IOPQ posted this hand. Should I shove a boat? I mean really? and not shoving here putting him on slowplayed 777? wtf
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ok guilty as charged
I just wanted to see what the hell people could put him on here |
So this was a lie? ;p
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
seems like a spot where I should think about flatting, but it just feels nitty as hell
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well I thought about it
in the one second it took me to shovel
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
bet the flop and turn bigger and wtfshove river
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lol this is funny because there's a reg at 50NL on stars named shipopotamus
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Parasurama
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
bet the flop and turn bigger and wtfshove river
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lol this is funny because there's a reg at 50NL on stars named shipopotamus |
I thought it was the funniest name I've seen in awhile and will not refer to allins as [x]shippapotamus
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