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River decisions...

  
 
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UG
Old 11-03-2006, 02:07 AM     Post subject: River decisions... #1 (permalink)  
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Hand One: This guy was a decent player, hadn't seen anything too out of line yet. The fact that he check/called me twice after raising the flop, then checked the river here kind of baffles me...What is my play on the river? Is this one of those WA/WB situations where I probably should just check behind, especially with how the board ended up?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($128.05)
SB ($74.55)
BB ($285.85)
UTG ($66.10)
MP ($107.15)
Hero ($147.45)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, K.
1 fold, MP raises to $4, Hero calls $4, 3 folds.

Flop: ($9.50) 9, Q, K (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $7, MP calls $7.

Turn: ($23.50) 3 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $18, MP calls $18.

River: ($59.50) T (2 players)
MP checks, Hero ???.

Final Pot: $59.50


Hand Two: Villian was pretty nitty...is this one of those situations where a river check/raise would be really-really-super-duper sexy? I wanted to get as much value out of this hand as possible, my hand is pretty hidden, so maybe?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($104.55)
MP ($70.95)
Hero ($112.75)
Button ($118.30)
SB ($106.45)
BB ($265.55)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, Q.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, Button calls $4, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($13) T, K, 3 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, Button calls $8, SB folds.

Turn: ($29) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $10, Hero calls $10.

River: ($49) A (2 players)
Hero bets $35, Button calls $35.

Final Pot: $119


 
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benny999
Old 11-03-2006, 05:40 AM #2 (permalink)  
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in 1, I'd bet ~$25 on the river. logic is that most would lead w/ the str8, most wouldn't c/r on a bluff, and he coulda rivered a worse 2pr.

in 2, the flop bet seems a lil small. more would set up for larger value on turn/riv and might make a ten fold more often (or not since he is likely to not have one...)
anyway, I'm not too sure with river c/r. is he very likely to have AK or a set here? if not sure, ur bet seems good to me.
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Genitruc
Old 11-03-2006, 06:43 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 both lines seem fine to me

I bet river in hand 1 and fold to a raise
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Fnord
Old 11-03-2006, 09:47 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: This one comes down to feel. As described I'm on the fence. I might just check behind to see what he's got.
Hand 2: Nits don't bet that river often, so you have to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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gabe
Old 11-03-2006, 01:44 PM #5 (permalink)  
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check first one, bet full pot on the 2nd one
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Robert
Old 11-03-2006, 03:09 PM #6 (permalink)  
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UG,

Hand 1: check this river everytime, unless villian is a superfishy calling station. Rest if perfect.

Hand 2: Bet at least $10 on the flop, your bet has lower FE imo. I like leading the river here against a nitty opponent, cuz if he's nitty the ace could be a scarecard for him (giving someone a pair higher than his) and he would fold. Also, he probably wont call a river c/r without a monster, and if he has a monster he will raise your river lead.
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Fnord
Old 11-03-2006, 03:19 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Also, he probably wont call a river c/r without a monster, and if he has a monster he will raise your river lead.
I strongly disagree. Nits check behind sets here so what he's calling a c/r with is almost irrelevent. Similar thoughts on what range is raising you. Of course all of that comes down to exactly who we're talking about and how much attention he's paying to the board.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 11-03-2006, 04:29 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
check first one, bet full pot on the 2nd one
pretty much. I go back and forth on the first one given his range.

pot size value bets on the river = the nuts.


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Robert
Old 11-03-2006, 04:34 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Also, he probably wont call a river c/r without a monster, and if he has a monster he will raise your river lead.
I strongly disagree. Nits check behind sets here so what he's calling a c/r with is almost irrelevent. Similar thoughts on what range is raising you. Of course all of that comes down to exactly who we're talking about and how much attention he's paying to the board.
What part do you disagree with? We fully agree on that leading the river is waaaay better than checkraising, but I still think my above point is valid to some point. I dont see even a nit checking a set behind on this river (but they might not raise a river lead with a low set here but only call).
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Miffed22001
Old 11-03-2006, 04:42 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 can we make a blocking type bet in hand 2 and hope to get raised?
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Robert
Old 11-03-2006, 04:48 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
can we make a blocking type bet in hand 2 and hope to get raised?
I dont think this works when we are up against a nit. On this board he will probably raise your blockbet with the same hands he will raise a close-to-full-pot-bet with (i.e. almost no hands).
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gabe
Old 11-03-2006, 04:48 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
can we make a blocking type bet in hand 2 and hope to get raised?
no, we want KQ to put as much money in as possible
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gabe
Old 11-03-2006, 04:49 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
pot size value bets on the river = the nuts.
are you saying you would read that for the nuts or that you think its totally awesome
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Robert
Old 11-03-2006, 04:54 PM #14 (permalink)  
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I think he means that its awesome, like YEAH BABY REALLY COOL
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gabe
Old 11-03-2006, 05:03 PM #15 (permalink)  
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TOTALLY COOL
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UG
Old 11-03-2006, 06:56 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Hand One: I check behind on the river, villian has AJ and MHINoG. I could have bet the turn a little stronger but I think he probably stays around given that he's got a nut-flush and a nut-straight draw. Bad luck, but good no-bet by me on the river, I guess.

Hand Two: Villian calls with a set of 3's and MHIG. Nice turn-bet you fucktard, way to give me great odds to catch up and beat you. Probably could have bet more and gotten paid, but who knows...Also, I agree with Fnord that this guy probably doesn't bet this board. Even if he does he may fail to call my check-raise push because he'll realize he's been beaten.


 
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