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Marshall28

06-05-2009, 05:32 PM Post subject: River decision

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

SB ($216.35)
BB ($222.75)
UTG ($219)
Hero (MP) ($316.90)
Button ($212.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K

, A

1 fold, Hero bets $6, Button raises $24, 2 folds, Hero calls $18

Flop: ($51) 2

, 10

, 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($51) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($51) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $38

Total pot: $127

Villain is HMMMMMZ on PS, he's never really stuck out as doing anything very well or very poorly in my memory.
His 3bet from the btn was 4% over 1300 hands and we didn't have any recent history of him 3betting me or anything to make me feel the need to 4bet this pre.

So anyways, what do you like to do on river? c/c, c/shove, or c/raise something smaller?

I doubt he's ever seen me 4b AK nor do I ever expect him to think I show up w/ it here.

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bikes

06-05-2009, 05:47 PM

#2 (permalink)

a hot damn mess
Administrator

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 2,468

I think crai sounds really good here. If hes a mediocre player like you say or a decent player I can see him leveling himself into a call here with like AJ or AQ.

It's a spot I guess where he should think that we think that hes bluffing the A if he has complete air and if he pays attention he should probably know you are capable of rebluffing given the way this hand played out.

But then I wanna think if you think hes bluffing the A why would you shove, unless its to prevent a re-rebluff which I'm sure isn't in his arsenal.

UGH OVERTHINKING.

Shove and hope he has any A which will probably be calling.

"the world def needs more bikeses"

bode

06-05-2009, 06:04 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

why are you calling this pf? i think your going to see another AK here the vast majority of the time because i cant see any other hand playing t his way. I guess shove and he can look you up with AQ?

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

Fnord

06-06-2009, 07:30 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Lead the flop. He may get stubborn and pop you light and that's the most light money you can hope to get into the pot. If he flats, either barrel the turn or c/r.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Luke999

06-06-2009, 11:01 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: England

Posts: 238

I'd prefer to 4bet being OOP.
I think you may see another AK here but a raise to get called by AQ or AJ at a push is fine.

Olddog21

06-06-2009, 12:51 PM

#6 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Falls Church Va.

Posts: 37

Call the $38...if he's holding a set you get off cheaply...anything else you probably have it with pair of As.

If you're not afraid to fail..only then will you succeed !

Toadstool

06-06-2009, 02:07 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 442

Toadstool will become famous soon enough

4 bet pre, but no biggie. as played I'd probably raise the river, I hardly ever expect him to have you beat, I'd imagine his range is 90% AJ/AQ/AK, so raising can't be bad here.

What he thinks of you is really important here.

Marshall28

06-07-2009, 01:50 AM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

After asking a couple higher stakes friends, I'm feeling very confident my c/shove was definitely the best play.

I don't like 4betting in this situation because I had no 4bet history w/ villain, and sure 4betting makes me a small amount of profit, but I think calling makes me way more money as my hand is disguised and if he does have AQ/AJ he puts in a lot of money bad on A/K high flops.

If I'm in position I much prefer a 4b. I also just really hate 4b/calling it off when I never think I'm ahead, I'd rather be the guy 3b/then 5betting all in w/ AK, it makse a lot more sense in my mind.

bigspenda73

06-07-2009, 02:55 AM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

Well sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

ya I mean the hand looks fine you prolly posted it b/c he played some weird hand some way and it got you thinking. All we know is his river range is probably like AJ-AK and c/r'ing opens up the possibility of getting all the money in while if we just lead he's likely going to flat with AJ, probably AQ as well.

Also, ppl still 4x 3bet in position, wtfover?

Marshall28

06-07-2009, 03:18 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

Actually I thought I got coolered and that I played it really well at the time of the hand. But then Colts for the W a successful 25/50 HU player was trying to argue that I shouldn't c/shove, which was what had me thinking otherwise. But then I asked some other guys who play 6m and they all agreed w/ me.

I fully expected villain to show up w/ A2/A4 occasionally, but some how he randomly had AT.

Actually a more interesting debate I had w/ a friend was about the turn play. He was arguing that leading the turn way >>>>>>>than c/c which are both >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> c/r.

I was planning on c/r the turn if villain bet something like 35 or whatever, and c/c if he bet something more like 20. I thought leading kinda sucked since when he checks back the flop he almost always has SD value, so he's likely calling a bet super often, then I'm stuck in a weird sized pot on the river 70% of the time w/ A high and no other way to win the pot really. I felt like sure a c/r may get called a decent amount of the time, but the 35% of the time I am called, I can get there and have a nice sized bet to shove the river... thoughts?

bode

06-07-2009, 04:07 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

marshall this cc'ing OOP and 4betting IP seems completely backwards. I can see occaisionally calling a 3bet IP and letting him barrell you on A/K high flops, but OOP your just playing a c/c-c/f game 2/3 of the time atleast and that is not going to show a profit.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

Luke999

06-07-2009, 05:16 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: England

Posts: 238

And the fact your doing it hoping for you to have an ace, them to have an ace and an ace to fall, sounds more like wishful thinking.

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