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|~|ypermegachi
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07-01-2007, 11:50 PM
Post subject: rethinking the preflop raise size
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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side A: 3.5x
side B: 4.0x
i'm currently in the A camp, but i came to the realization that it might not be optimal. now, a lot of players are actually in camp A out of convenience rather than by choice, since the "bet pot" button is conveniently 3.5x, so you don't need to type anything in (likewise, most sites don't let you drag in halfs, but i'm guess this is pretty irrelevant once you get to $200NL+).
i rationalized being in camp A for the following reasons:
a) i think stealing blind success is the same for 3.5 or 4.0, so you are risking less to win the blinds.
b) it keeps the pot just a little bit smaller so when you cbet you don't need to bet a larger amount relative to the pot size.
c) if you happen to flop a great hand, you can just bet more than your usual cbet to build the pot size.
but then i realized something. most players are cold calling 99.99% the same hands vs a 3.5 raise and a 4.0 raise. and those same players will fold to a cbet with nothing.
now we have a dilemma. raising 3.5 will save you a little money those times you get raised on the flop, or you shut down on the turn. but it also forfeits a lot of profits from cbets taking the pot down.
after 50 successful cbets, that's 25bb of profit difference between raising 3.5x and 4.0x!
i'm not really sure where i'm going with this...because the raise size might be more optimal depending on the limits as well and your opponents. i'm hoping this can generate some discussion and maybe break it down statistically somehow...
let this be an inspiration to discussion, cuz currently i got nothing, and still just pondering.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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if ur good postflop, then given ur reasons 3.5x is better.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Smaller raises will get more calls and will cost less money when you're re-raised.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I raise 3.5x in utg & utg+1 and 4x in co and button. 3.5x in sb folded to me, 3.5x+1bb/limper in blinds limped to me. Bigger pots in position, smaller pots oop.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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it doesnt matter really that much at all im sure we all have better things to think about
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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38 is optimal, 39 is terrible
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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are decimal points BOC???
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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