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Reraised pot I push flop???

  
 
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Jager
Old 03-07-2007, 01:33 AM     Post subject: Reraised pot I push flop??? #1 (permalink)  
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Villain is running 23/18 and has been 3 betting most of my button raises. It is obvious that he is a LRR in this spot. I haven't hit a real hand all night, but I feel the need to slow him down...

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UTG ($202.30)
MP ($191.45)
Hero ($198)
SB ($338.55)
BB ($225.20)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K.
2 folds, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, BB raises to $24, Hero calls $16.

Flop: ($49) 3, Q, J (2 players)
BB bets $30, Hero raises to $174
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elipsesjeff
Old 03-07-2007, 02:11 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 4bet preflop work bettor against this type of player? The push isn't that bad as if you get called you have anywhere from 4-7 outs.


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silu73
Old 03-07-2007, 03:26 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I'm not really liking this line. If he is a LRR and you want to take a stance I rather push pre-flop.
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sauce123
Old 03-07-2007, 04:18 AM #4 (permalink)  
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This is really bad man. I mean its gonna work a lot, but your hand crushes his 3betting range so hard preflop that you should just put in at least 1/3 of your stack pre, expecting to get a fold about 80% of the time and being a coinflip when called.

Here your play is fine, but it would be sooo much better if you had called pre with like AT or something imo. Essentially what you did here was give up crushing equity to make a marginal if probably ok play on a flop which hasn't helped you.

Also a call is better here imo. That flop helped out a decent part of his range, but if he has air/ a one pair hand of some sort he can't call any sizeable turn bet because a call here reps a set pretty hard. This also gives you some implied odds if you hit your gutty cause he shows up with QQ JJ AA KK here sometimes (though not much, which is why we smooth call the flop lol). Essentially you are risking your entire stack against an undefined hand vs the preflop raiser, and to make matters worse you are risking your stack to win a 79 dollar pot. Pick a better spot with a worse hand in a bigger pot is what I'm saying. Its kind of counter-intuitive, I know. In today's games imo, the place where you can kiiiiillllll the regs is in 3bet pots, specifically in 3bet pots on the turn and river. I might make a post going into more detail on this subject later, as its pretty confusing to me also lol. Sauce.
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Genitruc
Old 03-07-2007, 04:52 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 This is o.k. but I'd rather just make it 95 to go and call a push.

Also, you can obv find better flops to do this (like substitute the Q or the J for a low club or spade).

Also, I think it's better to 4-bet preflop vs loose 3-bettors (and obv never fold).

edit : lol@ "95 to go"
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Alexos
Old 03-07-2007, 05:01 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Yea why not just 4-bet pf? You neeed to get more money in since you're ahead of his range.

I dont think this is a good flop to do this b/c something like AQ, AJ or any lower pair would be in his range, so basically you're ahead of nothing and have ~7 outs should he call. I just realized Geni said most of what I said so I'll stop.
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jackvance
Old 03-07-2007, 09:34 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 I suck in these situations, but I just wanted to say that that is an awful flop.. flopping a draw in a reraised pot is so cruel, you can't fold but on the other hand it suckers you into committing your stack on a hand you don't like that much..
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Jager
Old 03-07-2007, 11:39 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I have been trying out not 4betting at all when I have position. I feel that I am making their decisions harder on the flop, and I am taking away lots of pots on the turn after they cbet. Until this hand I have not pushed any hands vs. a regular on the flop I have only called and played the turn.

Sauce why would this be better with AT?? I have 10% more equity with AKo than with ATo vs a range of 77+,ATs+,KQs,AJo+ on this flop.
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sauce123
Old 03-07-2007, 05:13 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I think it would be better with AT cause AT has no equity vs his range preflop, so by shoving this flop you aren't sacrificing PF 4bet equity.

your right tho, strictly as played AK>AT here.
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