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Real scary board for a set

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noble007

11-04-2007, 04:21 PM Post subject: Real scary board for a set

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2006

Location: London

Posts: 531

Any suggestions for turn?

PokerStars Game #13036128457: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/11/04 - 12:12:26 (ET)
Table 'Pleione IV' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: red_dawn_28 ($48 in chips)
Seat 3: Jokers61 ($43.20 in chips)
Seat 4: Noble007 ($55.15 in chips)
Seat 5: j1ludwig ($28.20 in chips)
Seat 6: Pajas ($57 in chips)
Pajas: posts small blind $0.25
red_dawn_28: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Noble007 [6c 6h]
Jokers61: raises $1 to $1.50
Noble007: calls $1.50
j1ludwig: folds
Pajas: folds
red_dawn_28: folds
*** FLOP *** [9s 6d 8d]
Jokers61: bets $5
Noble007: raises $10 to $15
Jokers61: calls $10
*** TURN *** [9s 6d 8d] [7c]
Jokers61: checks

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ChrisTheFish

11-04-2007, 04:26 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Huddersfield, England

Posts: 492

I think this is much more likely a diamond draw, TP or a bare 7, i'd lead here and probably call a shove.

griffey24

11-04-2007, 04:35 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisTheFish

I think this is much more likely a diamond draw, TP or a bare 7, i'd lead here and probably call a shove.

I agree with this, I would be much more worried if a T fell or a 5 fell than the 7. He was probably open or FD on flop, and you're likely still ahead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

IowaSkinsFan

11-04-2007, 06:37 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

check behind the turn and if he checks the river bet. If the board pairs of course bet.

Check out the new blog!!!

mixchange

11-05-2007, 07:12 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

check behind the turn and if he checks the river bet. If the board pairs of course bet.

griffey24

11-05-2007, 01:44 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

check behind the turn and if he checks the river bet. If the board pairs of course bet.

ok yes.. on second thought I dont mind this. Any OESD cards that he had would give the board a straight, so we're only probably risking the 9 flush cards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

Chopper

11-05-2007, 08:24 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

check behind the turn and if he checks the river bet. If the board pairs of course bet.

you wouldnt throw a blocking bet of about $20 out there, and check behind the river just to get it to showdown and charge the diamond for his draw?

it just seems when i check behind this turn, i get a big bet thrown at me on the river regardless of the card.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Robb

11-06-2007, 12:07 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,074

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisTheFish

I think this is much more likely a diamond draw, TP or a bare 7, i'd lead here and probably call a shove.

I play lower stakes, but at NL10 this is my line. I think the flop rr is good. I'd bet 2/3 on the turn and call the shove. Even with a combo draw, he's not really got enough outs (9 flush + 4 gutshot) to call.

What was he raising and calling with that worries you? TT? AKs? AQs? With the action, he's got to know 2 pair is probably behind, so he knows he has to hit the draw. ATs? I just don't see his range really fitting this board very well. I think he got out ahead of his TP/AK hand and will fold to big bet on the turn.

I don't put him on a set of 9's or 8's either. I think he would c/r the flop if he did.

mixchange

11-06-2007, 01:58 AM

#9 (permalink)

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check raising a flop with a set is like the worst line

whats nice about what ISF and I advocate here is that by checking the turn here villain is much more likely to bluff river with a busted draw. If the FD misses and he bets river strong, I just call. And if he hits his flush and the board pairs, he will lead and you get alllll his monies

will641

11-06-2007, 04:21 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Location: getting my swell on

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

check behind the turn and if he checks the river bet. If the board pairs of course bet.

alright giggidy gig.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

Robb

11-06-2007, 04:23 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,074

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

check raising a flop with a set is like the worst line

Three questions. First, why is the c/r flop a terrible line? Villain has to be worried about the board texture, too, and might want to take down the pot if he can right here.

Second, I pointed out what I thought villain might do with a set. I see this play all the time from villains at my level.

Third, what's the rationale for giving him a free card here? You're risking a pretty big pot by letting him draw for free. Is the payoff on the end worth it?

mixchange

11-06-2007, 05:13 AM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

important edit/clarification

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

check raising a flop with a set is like the worst line

Three questions. First, why is the c/r flop a terrible line? Villain has to be worried about the board texture, too, and might want to take down the pot if he can right here.

Why not to C/r w/ set

-In general its a line that doesn't maximize value vs. medium strength hands due to screaming " i love my hand!"

Why to bet flop w/ set

- it makes villain define his hand and the streets easier to play
-on a drawish board many players take the free card here which can wreck your set...without having any idea of what villain might have
-you need to start building a pot, hopefully all going in on flop or turn

so we bet the flop with sets OOP or IP, half a pot at least (2/3 is great if villain is likely to have hit) depending on texture if you think villain's range hit (or if its drawish), more.

If villain re-raises, we can decide to either:
1) push if we think villain loves his hand or if we think scare cards could kill or action
2) call the raise and c/r AI on the turn (oop). The pot is now big enough villain is committed, where the flop C/R defines our hand too early and allows villain to get away

Quote:

Second, I pointed out what I thought villain might do with a set. I see this play all the time from villains at my level.

Bad, answered above.

Quote:

Third, what's the rationale for giving him a free card here? You're risking a pretty big pot by letting him draw for free. Is the payoff on the end worth it?

missed fd bluffs + paired board flushes > the pots we lose when flush hits
also, if for some reason he was drawing on flop with like A10s/a5 he wont put us on a boat when our 10 out boat/quads hit and will stack off

Robb

11-06-2007, 05:16 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,074

Thanks, I appreciate the explanation. I'm glad the villains are playing badly!! I seriously see this every night from villains playing NL10.

mixchange

11-06-2007, 08:58 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

just wanted to point out I wasn't clear in my labelling on the last post... edited

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