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euphoricism

12-11-2006, 08:24 PM Post subject: Reads Reads Reads

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

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I suck at them in NL. Suck. Horrible.

I need help. Tell me what you look for and how you go about doing it. Do you focus on one player, probably the weakest one, and learn everything about him and then figure out a plan? Thats the route I've been taking, but then I run into so much crap from the other 4 people that I dont know what to do with.

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IowaSkinsFan

12-11-2006, 08:28 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

Get PT and then just get a good feel for the table and you should be fine. Just see oh this guys raising a lot, this guy limps everytime, he limped AA. Whateva. It doesn't have to be a science. Look at instant hand histories and look a the big pots.

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bode

12-11-2006, 08:30 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

im in the same situation. i feel like, from a BB/100 standpoint, i do better when i play 4 tables because i dont get bored and play dumb shit hands, but i cant get reads on anyone. i can get some on the 60/10 donks because their betting patterns are so transparent, but its the TAggs that i feel its the most important to get reads on, and i cant pay close enough attention if im playing more than 2 tables.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

joshuadzl

12-11-2006, 09:21 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Seattle, Wa

Posts: 287

Its all about betting patterns and getting hands in. It wasn't until I had about 25k-30k hands at microlimits before I felt even moderately decent at putting players on hands at micros (.10 - 1)

It'll come with time. One suggestion I could give you is if you're bored watching TV and just chattin on the PC, load up a table and just view it. See if you can put players on hands, that helped me.

joshuadzl

12-11-2006, 09:23 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Seattle, Wa

Posts: 287

Also, I should add, PAHud makes a world of difference in learning. I think its important to learn how to watch the tables without it as well, but it also helps get the grasp.

dsaxton

12-11-2006, 09:24 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Arlington, VA

Posts: 2,667

I don't play much no limit holdem anymore online, but just take note of how frequently they raise preflop, how often they continuation bet, how they bet different holdings, whether or not they pause when they have a marginal hand facing a bet, whether or not they do this when they're slow-playing, whether or not they slow-play at all, or if they're an aggressive player that thinks you should fast-play everything postflop "hoping to get paid," whether or not they reraise liberally before the flop, things like that. Basically, just pay attention to how they play different hands, and just as importantly, how they respond to the actions of their opponents.

avocado

12-11-2006, 09:52 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 9

A HUD is really helpful for narrowing hand ranges preflop. I make notes on any opponents who show down hands that I didn't expect based purely on their HUD. A 20/5 raising T9s in MP gets a note; players in the x/10 range who are playing weak aces anywhere but the button get a note. Anytime someone's holding surprises you, it's worth a note.

I play really conservatively in limped pots, and generally only look to make plays in raised pots. So I pay a lot of attention to people's behavior in raised pots. Do they cbet all the time? If so, how do they respond to a flop raise? Do they fire a second barrel on the turn? Do they donk bet much? Do they minraise cbets? If so, look to see them show down a hand like that.

A few other example notes:
"overvalues small overpairs" after opp called AI with 88 on a 7 high board
"raises like a machine when 2 limp to his BB - has shown down ATo here, played strong when A hit"
"overbets pot when checked to - has shown down air, small pair"

In general, I'm looking for any behavior that I didn't expect, especially if it looks like it might let me trap them, or if I'm worried that it might let them trap me.

I play 4 tables of 6max. I do not have notes like this on all of my opponents, and I definitely don't make as many of these sorts of notes as I could if I were playing one table. I do try to keep an eye on any big pots on any table (whether or not I'm involved) to see if the players involved behaved strangely. And I try to get a feel for how the players on either side of me play in raised pots, since we'll end up in button-blind battles a lot.

A last, little thing about notes -- I always start a note with the context where I recorded it, like "early $3r" or "$50-6" (meaning 6max cash). Playing at the stakes I do, I don't find tagged players that often, but when I do it's key to know where I tagged them.

benny999

12-12-2006, 08:13 AM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

I've been making more and more reads lately, and still have lots to learn, but am realizing it's a great way to beat some of the regulars or trickier players.

Right now I don't focus on a particular player, except for tricky regulars I'll sometimes look them up in poker tracker for a little, and try to pick up on anything unexpected I can use to narrow their ranges or exploit somehow.
here's some examples:

(most important) Player type

Post flop reads...(this kinda helps - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...fpart=all&vc=1,)

examples:
Plays draws passively or aggro
Calls flop AND turn PSB on a draw
Top pair is the nuts on draw boards.
monster (set, flush, str8, etc) lines - aggro, passive/slow-play til river
cbet then shut down ("abc tags")

Bet sizing…examples:
Cbet 2/3 w/ nothing and pot with a hand
bets stregnth of hand (ie bets min or 1/4 pot with real weak stuff)

jackvance

12-12-2006, 01:17 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

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jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

I haven't played in quite a while so I'm not exactly qualified atm, but to me reads were always that you figured out how a person is playing. How they view the game, what they are doing, etc. Not just one tendency. If you see a few hands, yo can usually decipher their playing style from their decisions. It's all about being concentrated and just observing what is going on. I could never win if I was watching TV while playing or something like that. It's all about a whole bnch of sbconscious things you pick up to define a player.

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

Miffed22001

12-12-2006, 02:08 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

i tend to note hands that people showdown and how they play certain hands in certain spots where i know time and again my stack will be on the line.

If someone wont call with a set on a dangerous flop when i raise preflop and c-bet then i can dump tp a lot. If they wont raise a flush draw but wont call with that set then their range is pretty easy.
Obviously, when i play players who will raise both its more tough and more about position/how i think they are playing in that session specifically.
Others include if i check oop after a preflop raise will they bet behind always/only with a good hand/only with a monster. This allows me to practice pot control while figuring out if i can showdown AQ on a Qxx rainbow flop for example.
I also want to try and see what sorts of hands people will limp in early positions. I like to see people limp QJ/AT type hands because ill raise a whole different range behind them trying to catch them out on calling station type plays when i have better hands.

Other bits are like do they c-bet a lot/check turn with nothing etc which are obvious traits if you watch the table.

IowaSkinsFan

12-12-2006, 02:36 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

If you for some odd reason you don't want to pay for PAHUD then get Gamtime+. It's on the PT website and it's free.

Check out the new blog!!!

Warpe

12-12-2006, 02:54 PM

#12 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Canuckistan

Posts: 3,905

Learn to differentiate between strong bets and weak ones, respect the former and attack the latter.

euphoricism

12-12-2006, 07:11 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Its my LHE background where reads werent all that particularly important thats killing me. I've spent two yearsish pounding hands and rarely considering anything beyond betting patterns, not really individual tendancies. And yet when I'm playing 2/4LHE, I can read people incredibly well.

It may be a comfort/confidence issue.

I have a copy of acehud, but I never ran it while playing NL.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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DaNutsInYoEye

12-12-2006, 08:26 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

It's easy as paying attention.

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

euphoricism

12-12-2006, 09:57 PM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Thats probably true. Dropping down to 1 table for a while will probably help my game a lot. I'll try it. Its gonna hurt my Operation BAR though, but long term I think its gonna pay off.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

Harry

12-13-2006, 12:07 AM

#16 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Philly

Posts: 722

All about betting patterns. Get the hands in and eventually you recognize betting patterns subconciously.

There are certain obvious ones, like a tag not c-betting HU. In those cases I almost always bet it no matter what I have.

Or when the 4 flush hits the river. Typically a pot-bet = no flush, and normal size bet = pretty strong flush, and a check = either a small flush or no flush and just a pair or something.

PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!

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