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will641
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09-12-2007, 11:17 PM
Post subject: questions on pot odds pre-flop
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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this question came up when i raised with 5's on the button, and a 6.7/1.7 over about 70 hands 4x raised me from the sb, and i folded because he obviously had me dominated.
Now my question is what kind of odds do i have to be getting there to be able to call?
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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The odds you are looking for are set odds, and have to do with stack size-vs-cost to call. You are 7-to-1 to hit your set on the flop. Since he has the opportunity to beat you with a higher set, straight, etc, then you have to adjust the odds. You must also adjust the odds to match the likelihood that you will be able to stack him off when you hit your set. With all this, and the fact that you believe he has you beat preflop, I would say 13-to-1 or so. That is his leftover stack size must be 13x what the amount to call his raise is.
This is an extremely unstable estimate, but it shows a general guideline. Remember it is important to realize that you are playing for set value only, and must fold if you don't hit the flop.
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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A good rule is to call you should have 15 times the call in your stack. So for example if you raise to 1 in a 25nl game, opp raises to 2. You have 1 more dollars to call, and 23 left in your stack, thats 23 times the call left in your stack. So easy call.
Lets say he raises to 3. that's 2 more to call with 22 left in your stack. Means you have 11 times the call in your stack.
NOW some say 11 is enough, and it probably is versus that much of a rock because he's going to pretty much stack off no matter what. Versus a player with a wider range i'd argue it isn't because he's not going to stack off 100% of the time when you hit your set (JJ on A high or K high or Q high flops, AK when it doesnt pair).
Here you said he raise 4 times. in 25 nl example that means its 3 to call with 21 left in your stack, now thats 7 times the call, which isn't enough.
I would do the math but you might as well just take my word for it. Someone can probably link a post about it by Fnord, but a lot will argue the wording in it is misleading or wrong.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Keep in mind that your odds are based on the remaining stacks plus the current pot, not just the stacks.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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okay, that sounds like some solid advice. much appreciated.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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I'd expect a 6.7/1.7 to only RR AA and KK, maybe QQ. So you really don't need more than like 10x behind.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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The tighter the reraiser the less x you need. At my levels, I use 10x because people don't reraise light (except me  )
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