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will641
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04-01-2008, 12:00 AM
Post subject: QJs vs. utg raiser.
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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villain here is a 26/20/3/41, so a pretty small sample. no reads other than preliminary stats. calling turn is the only line i can see here against a relatively unknown. and then if river blanks do we call another half pot sized bet? and at what point do we fold?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
saw flop|saw showdown
Hero ($366)
SB ($158)
BB ($200)
UTG ($302.10)
MP ($185.75)
CO ($230.45)
Preflop: Hero is Button with J , Q.
UTG raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero calls $8, 2 folds.
Flop: ($19) Q , T , T (2 players)
UTG bets $14, Hero calls $14.
Turn: ($47) J (2 players)
UTG bets $22, Hero....
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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wouterpoker
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 42
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i would raise to 58 here and fold to a push. if villain bets again on river, fold. if he checks, check unless another Q or J shows up.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wouterpoker
i would raise to 58 here
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why?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,460
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call turn and shove any river
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,460
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i know i ll get flamed and u don t need to do this stuff but i rly like bluffing here when it looks like villain is repping AK
btw the "smart thing to do" is... it doesn't really matter :
-lots of aggro villains will 3-barrel this here since you can't have a big hand usually if you haven't raised by the riv and you can have a ton of draws.
-u beat bluffs but with no idea of villain's 2 and 3-barrelling frequencies it's pure guesswork. A 26/20 can def be 2 barelling a FD or pure air since it's so easy to rep a big hand after raising UTG
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,460
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actually
minraise the turn
my god it looks soo fking strong he'll prob just flat AK and you get to decide whether or not to shove riv after he checks
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I think call and fold blank rivers. Most guys will check the river with the part of their range that we beat here. Our hand isn't that great, we only really beat AQ/KQ.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,130
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I'm calling and seeing what kind of river hits. We still beat a good chunk of his range and when we river a jack we stack him ldo. I think raising the turn turns our hand into a bluff and I don't really want to do that.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,147
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Call turn call river
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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okay well, just wanted to make sure this wasnt a bad call, and i ginned the shit out of him on the river with a J. he had JT
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
okay well, just wanted to make sure this wasnt a bad call, and i ginned the shit out of him on the river with a J. he had JT
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LOL NH
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,599
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Why would people wanna raise this turn? We're ahead of KQ/AQ and villain won't put you on AK ever because of preflop. So I don't think they are folding any overpair at all on this board.
Flat the turn, and probably flat the river or maaaybe sometimes fold river but I prob rarely do.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,460
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i know it sounds sick but we can rep plenty of boats
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,460
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as in, at least 3
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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but he's not folding AK. getting him off KK AA is real hard too.
he's betting small, so take advantage of it
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,599
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
i know it sounds sick but we can rep plenty of boats
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You can rep a lot of boats, yesss....
butttt the board is sooo huge draw heavy that any solid hand will have a hard time folding. All over pairs have better two pairs than QJ (which could be raising for value mayyybe, though doubtful).
KQ could be raising this turn with tp + OESD, and all overpairs straights are ahead of this hand.
There are two flush draws out that could be raising this turn.
There are just too many draws on this board to try getting any solid hand to fold.
Furthermore, preflop discounts a lot of boats (QQ/JJ probably not possible now) so you are repping exactly QT (which may be unlikely to be played against UTG raiser) and JT (which would also probably raise this drawy flop). So there is exactly 1 boat you are repping (QT) that wouldn't have 3-bet pre and that wouldn't raise this flop and about a million draws. So which hands will villain put us on!?
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,440
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Call turn call river
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
as in, at least 3
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really? i count exactly 2. QT and JT. im 3 betting TT-QQ ldo.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,460
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quadzillas are possible and not everybody 3-bets QQ all the time vs an utg raiser
i'm pretty much joking about raising btw, the sane thing is call turn and fold riv to a big bet
but I'm pretty sure if a thinking player bet turn small with AK and got raised lots of us would be saying "hmm tough spot" if it were a posted hand.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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lol okay, i wasnt sure if you were joking or not. it didnt seem like something you would say, cause raising is really bad imo.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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