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r8ed
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03-23-2006, 06:37 PM
Post subject: Preflop raising standards
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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I want to get a general idea of how you guys raise preflop.
I see many people on here raise 3 or 4xBB +1 for each limper. But if you raise a large percentage of hands, this seems like it would get costly, plus after a while people will just call those too and you are playing much larger pots with potentially marginal hands.
I raise the same amount (4xBB) regardless of limpers about 95% of the time - mainly NOT to give any more info about my hand. If I'm raising AT, I'm not sure I want say a 6bbx3 pot to fight over. So, do I NOT raise AT? I want to have a high pfr % so opps can't tell what I have. I'm sure somebody can explain why the other way is better.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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A10s+ 77+
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
A10s+ 77+
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66-22 no good? Fear of set over set or counterfeiting? I would think if you reraise preflop and your low PP hits, nobody is giving you credit for a set.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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If you're raising 76s on the button with three limpers ahead of you, well, you're a fool not to raise more than your standard 4x's the bb. You want to play a hand like that against as few people as possible (unless you flop a monster, which doesn't happen often enough).
All it takes is for the BB to come along, giving greater pot odds to UTG (so he'll call), which makes it almost an insta-call for MP and the CO no matter what type of trash they were trying to limp with.
The flop will probably miss you...How do you feel about putting 15 bb's into the pot to try to take it down against that many opponents?
Here's a hand for you, a few weeks ago from NL100:
Ultimate George ($165)
BB ($32)
MP ($100)
SB ($56) -- Calling Station
Ultimate George is on button with A :hearts: T :hearts:
UTG calls, MP calls, Ultimate George raises $4, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, MP calls.
Flop: A32 (rainbow)
Checked to me, I bet $12, SB calls, UTG calls, MP folds.
Turn: 5 (completes rainbow)
Checked to me, I bet enough to put UTG all-in, SB comes over the top and is all-in, I have to call b/c of pot odds.
River: blank
Ultimate George shows AT
UTG shows A3
SB shows 94o and wins the pot
Now...I'm probably losing my money to A3 if he decides to call (shortstack), but do you think he calls a $6-7, maybe $8 bet from UTG with A3? Maybe, maybe not (probably not). The SB probably would have folded, but maybe not (calling station)...
But I got myself in a lot of trouble with this hand by not betting it hard preflop when I clearly had the best hand. I gave a chance for others to catch up to me when a bigger bet may have made them think twice about trying to do that.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
A10s+ 77+
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Agreed, but I add KQ, KJs, suited connectors down to 67s, and 55+ in CO or button.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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sunfunbunch
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 176
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I've seen ilikeaces86's blog and he bets 3.33x BB then adds a BB for every limper.
In another thread he said he just limps 22-88.
**If you are just waiting for these hands do you blind steal at all?
Is blind stealing worth it? IF so.. how much should the raise be?
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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UG - Yes, you may have isolated or taken the pot down in that hand, but post flop you built a huge pot with TPGK. After they call a pot sized flop, I'm check/calling through the river if it's cheap enough. The post flop play is debatable but how would you play this hand differently if you raised it up and got one caller? I assume you pot it and then you are almost in the same situation, but with less incentive to fold.
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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I pretty much always bet 3,5bb and 1 bb for every limper. And what hands to raise or just call with really depends lots on position, in late position I raise lots more then only A10s+ 77+. It also depends on the players, if it's a loose table, passive table, aggressive table, etc..
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
A10s+ 77+
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Agreed, but I add KQ, KJs, suited connectors down to 67s, and 55+ in CO or button. |
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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What about QJo, JTo, suited gappers down to 68, suited aces down to A7, A8o+, etc. I guess I'm pretty loose, but it seems to work well, even on party.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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if its folded to me on button, i raise 65o+ 53s+ 54s+ A8+ A2s+ 22+
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
if its folded to me on button, i raise 65o+ 53s+ 54s+ A8+ A2s+ 22+
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How tight are your tables generally?
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Murd0c
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 169
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Wouldn't people notice that your abusing the hell outta the button?
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Currently at UB playing $50 NLHE 6max.
Bankroll: ~$1900 (Almost BR'ed for 100NL.)
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
if its folded to me on button, i raise 65o+ 53s+ 54s+ A8+ A2s+ 22+
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How tight are your tables generally? |
are you looking for a specific stat i could give you?
i really dont know how to quantify that
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I mean are they 70% of the table seeing the flop or 30%? Is the average player good or bad? If toy had to put a word on your average table conditions would that word be Tight or Loose?
If you can answer any of those questions I'll be happy.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Murd0c
Wouldn't people notice that your abusing the hell outta the button?
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yea...i raise those hands even behind limpers too (most of them)...but it all comes together when they think im a manaic and start paying off everything.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I mean are they 70% of the table seeing the flop or 30%? Is the average player good or bad? If toy had to put a word on your average table conditions would that word be Tight or Loose?
If you can answer any of those questions I'll be happy.
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average player is thinking but not good. like someone that knows not to play K6o, but they have a hard time folding TPTK.
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