|
Jager
|
02-14-2007, 12:58 AM
Post subject: Preflop problems with a certain type
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
I am curious how to handle this type of player 25-30 VPIP and ~20+ PFR, who usually raises 4x, lets assume he is standard postflop. It is my understanding that I cannot profitable call with small PP's as his range is to wide. What type of hands are you 3betting this player with position and out of the blinds to his steal attempts?? As this player what types of hands will he 4bet when he adjusts to your light 3betiing?? Does anything change if he is raising only 3x??
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Warpe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
|
|
How does him having a wide range negatively impact our ability to call with small pockets preflop? Enlighten me.
|
|
|
|
Galapogos
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Warpe
How does him having a wide range negatively impact our ability to call with small pockets preflop? Enlighten me.
|
I'm thinking this means he is less likely to go broke with a hand post flop when you spike your set so it's not very profitable to be playing these for set value alone anymore. But I'd like to hear from someone who knows what they're talking about on this too.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
|
|
|
iceit
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 28
|
|
Why wouldn't you want to call with a PP. You'll be ahead most of the time preflop and if you think that you can outplay him on the flop I would say go for it.
|
|
|
|
ihategnomes
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
|
|
Quote:
|
How does him having a wide range negatively impact our ability to call with small pockets preflop?
|
Implied odds. The wider his range, the less amount of time he will flop enough of something to stack off with.
|
|
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
|
|
IowaSkinsFan
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
You just have to bluff these guys and call them down thin more if they are reasonable players (I am preparing to get flamed and wrote this knowing I'd get a reaction), who i assume you're talking about as nonreasonable players will stack off with crap.
|
|
|
|
Galapogos
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iceit
if you think that you can outplay him on the flop I would say go for it.
|
Why not play any two cards then if you feel you can just outplay him on the flop to take it down?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
|
|
|
pgil
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
|
|
because outplaying someone postflop does not necessarily mean taking down a pot. it means losing less when behind, winning more when ahead, and taking pots that are available to be taken
|
|
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
|
|
zook
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
|
|
To make playing pp's profitable against him, you have to bluff with them sometimes.
|
|
|
|
benny999
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
|
|
I agree with iowa mostly. outplay them in medium pots- 3bet pre, float cbets, occasionally call thin, etc. if they start adjusting to that, then tighten up. not sure what else to do though, maybe switch tables, lol?
oh, and start making thin calls or bluffs in big pots if you get good reads on how they play post flop.
|
|
|
|
Jager
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
I am not completely sure why PPs don't have the implied odds against these types. What if they you both have equal postflop skills? I play a 21/16 game normally, and I get 3bet a ton. I know you have to 3bet these 20+ PFR guys more, but with what range?
|
|
"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
|
|
IowaSkinsFan
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
I have learned not to three bet these guys that light oop, In general, building a pot OOP without a good hand is a spew. Pretty much, I'll add all SC's to threebet versus an annoying button raiser but that's about it, unless h'es way out of line. You can't threebet too much with crap oop or you'll get no credit and no credit oop sucks.
If you are, persay on the BU versus an aggro preflop raiser in the CO, you can threebet the guy a hell of a lot. Most of the time he'll call with way too big of a range and be stuck because he has no position.
PP's don't have big of implied odds unless their crazy because they are folding a lot of flops and they are missing way more hands.
|
|
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
yea its only negative ev if u are calling solely for set value.
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
reraise them in position alot
|
|
|
|
Genitruc
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
|
|
I used to play pretty close to this (about 27/22ish)
When I felt ppl started to reraise me light I'd start 4-betting preflop right away.
I think you just have to be ready to go to war with much more marginal holdings. It's the only way to make it tough on them (although this may seem like it's "playing into their game") otherwise you'll get owned hard.
Showing them that you're not afraid of spewing a buy-in or two is very important imo.
|
|
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Genitruc
Showing them that you're not afraid of spewing a buy-in or two is very important imo.
|
wouldnt you love to play against someone who thought like this?
|
|
|
|
Genitruc
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Genitruc
Showing them that you're not afraid of spewing a buy-in or two is very important imo.
|
wouldnt you love to play against someone who thought like this? |
It would seem so but don't lots of big winners give off this impression (players like Straate and BBuddy come to mind)?
It's obv not an easy style to employ, but it's always tough playing ppl who make you think that your top pair/2nd pair is worth felting a high % of the time.
Plus, if they're aware that you know this, they'll adjust (obv this nth level stuff gets pretty sick but lots of ppl suck at it so playing someone who is used to thinking this tricky takes a lot of ppl out of their comfort zone)
|
|
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
reraise more preflop, raise the flop more with hands and force the looser player to bluff harder or giev away his hand. Basically, if you like your hand more raise.
When i play a 30/20 gameon stars i hate being reraised preflop, yet the range is so predictable is easy to resteal pots away from such players.
|
|
|
|
Jager
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gabe
reraise them in position alot
|
With what range?? 88+, SCs, AJo+, ATs+??
|
|
|
|
Genitruc
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jager
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gabe
reraise them in position alot
|
With what range?? 88+, SCs, AJo+, ATs+?? |
lol sounds like you've been doing it forever!
|
|
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
cards dont matter too much as long as you know you are inside their head
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
Linear Mode
