|
aislephive
|
08-09-2006, 09:07 AM
Post subject: Preflop blind battle against a lagtard ..
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
|
|
Over a relatively small 40 hand sample he was 40/35 and extremely aggro, how's this look?
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
SB ($373.17)
Hero ($213)
UTG ($84.40)
MP ($268)
Button ($498.73)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J , A . SB posts a blind of $1.
3 folds, SB (poster) raises to $7, Hero raises to $25, SB raises to $75, Hero calls $186 (All-In),
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Irisheyes
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
|
|
Blah I dunno. I like to fold when he 4bets unless you have a serious history of tangling together.Not many players will call this with A9 etc. If he's a real maniac then yeah it's fine but in my experience most guys are maniacs at pushing and not so much calling.
|
|
|
|
andy-akb
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Blah I dunno. I like to fold when he 4bets unless you have a serious history of tangling together.Not many players will call this with A9 etc. If he's a real maniac then yeah it's fine but in my experience most guys are maniacs at pushing and not so much calling.
|
I dont think we are expecting him to call with a worse hand here, are we? If we are, then I dont like it because it isnt very often that we get a call by a worse hand, but in general I dont think this is horrible. If we are so sure we are ahead of his range, why not see a flop? This basically turns our hand into a bluff and we hope that he does fold some better hands, and I dont think we have enough of a read to do that. Also AJo isnt a good hand to do this with because if we are called we are likely to be crushed, I think a better hand would be Axs or maybe a SC. Personally I fold to the 4bet.
A general question though. What sort of hands should we be reraising a stealer with in this situation? Against what types of villains? Here we have position on every street against an seemingly over-aggro player with a hand that is ahead of his range. Why not call and let him hang himself?
|
|
|
|
bdawg56kg
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
|
|
I think it's okay, but unless you and the villain have had history with each other specifically, then don't be so quick to assume he's making a move on you in this spot. In other words, don't fall into the trap that just bc he is lag and making moves, he is necessarily making a move on YOU. Hope that made sense...
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
LET'S GAMB000L!
|
|
|
|
natdang
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 380
|
|
Well guys, I don't think you make this play expecting villain to call at all. The play's power lies in its fold equity. And I don't think you have as much as you'd like to make this play, not with a 4-bet preflop against a player running at 40/35. The 40/35 suggests that yes, he is really aggro, and has a wide range, but like bdawg said, even donks and fish get cards the same % of the time that you do. You are risking a lot on the hope that he didn't wake up with a hand this time, as a matter of fact, 186 to win 100. Also, without much of a history with him and a sample size of only 40 hands, you have no idea if he might call this with AQ KQ JJ etc...
|
|
|
|
johnny_fish
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
|
|
This sucks.
There is no FE and I doubt if you're even ahead of his 4-bet range.
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 48.4735 % 43.62% 04.85% { AcJd }
Hand 2: 51.5265 % 46.67% 04.85% { 66+, A7s+, KQs, A8o+, KQo }
|
|
|
|
arkana
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
|
|
You are wrong johhny_fish, this guy is 40/35 - that is pretty damn aggro. He has to call about $110 to win $260, so a little better than 2:1 odds which is normally not good enough against the range you would expect a tight player to push over his 4-bet here. Unless he is a psycho he will fold medium to low pockets and AJ and lower here. His 4-bet doesnt mean the same range of hands as what a normal player's does. Yes you aren't ahead of his 4-bet range but you dont need to be if he views you as tight, your folding equity swings it in your favour.
These are the same reasons you often see the sparks fly in high stakes games between two good aggro players and they end up all in with mediocre hands.
|
|
|
|
aislephive
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by johnny_fish
This sucks.
There is no FE and I doubt if you're even ahead of his 4-bet range.
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 48.4735 % 43.62% 04.85% { AcJd }
Hand 2: 51.5265 % 46.67% 04.85% { 66+, A7s+, KQs, A8o+, KQo }
|
How does it suck if you think he is full of shit and figure AJ to be the best hand most of the time? Against a solid player, sure, I'm crushed here every time probably and would never consider pushing. But I felt his range was so wide as to include any pair, any ace, tons of random junk as well since I'm putting him on a power play. This player was the type to make retarded ego driven plays if he sensed somebody was playing back at him. Not to mention this shove is so awesome for metagame.
FWIW, he folded shortly after I shoved.
|
|
|
|
aislephive
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by arkana
You are wrong johhny_fish, this guy is 40/35 - that is pretty damn aggro. He has to call about $110 to win $260, so a little better than 2:1 odds which is normally not good enough against the range you would expect a tight player to push over his 4-bet here. Unless he is a psycho he will fold medium to low pockets and AJ and lower here. His 4-bet doesnt mean the same range of hands as what a normal player's does. Yes you aren't ahead of his 4-bet range but you dont need to be if he views you as tight, your folding equity swings it in your favour.
These are the same reasons you often see the sparks fly in high stakes games between two good aggro players and they end up all in with mediocre hands.
|
Exactly, 40/35 is some serious balls to the wall aggression and he was equally aggro postflop. I mean, when I fuck around at 25nl I feel like I play crazy aggro and my VPIP/PFR is like 35/25, so against a 40/35 (I know the sample size is small, but I would estimate that it was close to his true VPIP/PFR) I would expect AJ to be good here plenty.
You brought up another good point about the fact that I DO in fact have fold equity. I play a 20/15 game which is tight solid, and when I 5bet here I have a huge hand almost every time, so there is a decent chance he folds a hand like a small/medium pair or maybe even he mucks AQ, who knows. I would expect him to call often but I don't think he has a huge hand here much at all, especially given the timing tells in which he 4-bet.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
Linear Mode
