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Preflop 3-bet fancy play hits draw

  
 
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flyingPenguin
Old 07-22-2007, 11:35 AM     Post subject: Preflop 3-bet fancy play hits draw #1 (permalink)  
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Villain is 58/27/1 with folds flop/turn/river % of 20/0/13 (77 hands). He doesn't seem to care about position preflop. He's reraised me from the blinds a few times.

I wouldn't normally reraise this lightly, but I thought I'd make a move because I think I'm well ahead of his range and he's not particularly aggressive.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($46.64)
Hero ($48.54)
SB ($25.92)
BB ($50)
UTG (Villain)/ ($72.31)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8, A.
UTG =#A500AF(Villain)/ raises to $2.5, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, UTG =#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $3.50.

Flop: ($12.75) 9, T, 7 (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $9, Villain calls $9.

Turn: ($30.75) 8 (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $20, Villain calls $20.

River: ($70.75) 2 (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero.... Checks? Value bets? Has already spewed?
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wouterpoker
Old 07-22-2007, 12:40 PM #2 (permalink)  

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i would check/fold here. don't bluff here, since a 58/27 will probably call you with a pair of 9's or more. i try to avoid putting alot of money in on these kind of boards vs these players. I rather win better kicker pots on non-scared boards vs these guys. Just be patience and wait for a better pot to stack this guy
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Galapogos
Old 07-22-2007, 05:47 PM     Post subject: Re: Preflop 3-bet fancy play hits draw #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingPenguin
Villain is 58/27/1 with folds flop/turn/river % of 20/0/13 (77 hands). He doesn't seem to care about position preflop. He's reraised me from the blinds a few times.

I wouldn't normally reraise this lightly, but I thought I'd make a move because I think I'm well ahead of his range and he's not particularly aggressive.
You've already spewed. You chose to 3-bet a guy with what's basically trash who has a VPIP of 58% and calls 80% of flop bets then almost 90% of the following streets.

If he's that bad post-flop that you just want a pot with him I flat call here. As played you flopped a good draw and he's not aggressive so I check hoping to hit. And I fold to anything if I don't hit.


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snowbird4life
Old 07-22-2007, 07:43 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Why are you bluffing a 58/27/1?
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Ash256
Old 07-22-2007, 07:51 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 I like vbetting a bit smaller on flop (pot-building) and vbetting small on the turn and then checking behind on river.
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flyingPenguin
Old 07-22-2007, 09:51 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird4life
Why are you bluffing a 58/27/1?
I was originally going to shut down on the turn if I didn't hit, but I'm addicted to betting my draws. On the turn I was thinking I was likely still ahead, and wanted to get it all in if I hit my draw.

Agreed it looks like a spewy play, but how much so?

I don't have pokerstove with me, but assuming that:
1. his range is the top 25% of hands and
2. he never folds that flop
am I ahead or behind on the turn?

Would playing almost the same but with smaller bets have been much better? If he's not going to fold there's certainly no need to size my bets the way I did when it's such a marginal hand.
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snowbird4life
Old 07-22-2007, 10:28 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I don't like even semi-bluffing someone who runs 58/27/1. They will pay you off when you hit your good hands, so why bluff off money to him? You can assume that you have zero fold equity throughout the hand imo. So you have to hit your straight (10ish outs) to be confident in your hand. The turn counterfeits your hand.

You say, "On the turn I was thinking I was likely still ahead, and wanted to get it all in if I hit my draw. " What draw? Did you mean to say the flop? That turn just counterfeited your hand. Now if he is holding, a 9, 10, j, overpair, etc, your toast. Also, what are you drawing to? trips? even then, he can easily have a straight and your drawing dead. IMO, i don't see any need to bet the turn and i think that is your biggest mistake.

Sure your semibluffing/cbet on the flop and hoping to build a pot incase you hit your hand, that is ok i guess, but with the assumed zero fold equity, im not even sure i would bother especially since you can so easily check behind since your in position and raise if he bets when you hit on the turn. Once your hand was pretty much counterfeited on the turn, I shut down, and hope to get to a cheap showdown, (which it looks like you could have done).

By this time, you have $34 of your $48 already in the pot, leaving you only $12 behind. I don't think you have any fold equity at this point. Although your pot committed. As played, i still check behind on the river and pray my hand is good. Also, i have no idea why you 3 bet him preflop. None at all, you know hes going to call, so you have to hit your hand, and unless you hit a flush, your not going to be too confident in your hand anyway.
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pokerroomace
Old 07-22-2007, 10:39 PM #8 (permalink)  
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check river. check turn. villain is a fish. no point in trying to bluff him.
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dsaxton
Old 07-23-2007, 12:26 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Preflop sucks. Flop is ok, but why are you betting the turn after he called the flop? River is a clear check behind.
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