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Pot control OOP?

  
 
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Clar17y
Old 09-02-2008, 05:09 PM     Post subject: Pot control OOP? #1 (permalink)  
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Clar17y
Party Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com Hand History Converter

Hero (CO): $52
BTN: $293
SB: $42.32
BB: $93.50
UTG: $183.04

Pre-Flop: Qs Kh dealt to Hero (UTG)
UTG folds, Hero raises to $2, BTN calls $2, 2 folds

Flop: ($4.75) 9d Js Qh (2 Players)
Hero bets $4, BTN calls $4

Turn: ($12.75) 5d (2 Players)
Hero bets $8, BTN calls $8

River: ($28.75) 6d (2 Players)
Hero bets $14, BTN raises to $37, Hero folds

Results: $56.75 Pot
BTN mucked and WON $77.75 (+$49.75 NET)

Villain relatively unknown, been sitting down a few orbits but his stack size tells me he knows what he's doing.

This is just an example, i figure on the river i'm beat and have to lay it down but should i have bet smaller each street? Maybe check/call the turn lead river?

How do you control pots with TPGK type hands OOP?

Clar
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dalecooper
Old 09-02-2008, 05:16 PM #2 (permalink)  
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This is not a good situation to bet three streets. TPGK on this board is not a very strong hand - he can easily have two pair, a straight, or a set (or a pair + straight draw) on the flop; then the same on the turn; and add on a backdoor flush on the river (Jd Td, Qd Td, Qd Jd all got there). Pot control is the right idea. I don't mind betting the flop although I'd mix in some checks depending on your opponent, and I'd be looking for the cheapest possible showdown on subsequent streets - in other words I'd play it pretty weakly and start check/calling or check/folding.

By the way, with this particular board and you being OOP, reads are VERY important. Against an unknown, you put in way too much money though. Against almost anybody but a really weak fish, you should not lead at this pot three times.
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Clar17y
Old 09-02-2008, 05:36 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Yeah i realised i shouldn't have bet all streets but only when i got to the river and was like "omg i made the pot too big i suck", but what do you do if you c-bet, he calls and then you check and he bets turn?

Surely if you call the pot is same size? Are you hoping that by check/calling turn he'll check down river for showdown? If you check and he bets you're folding?

Clar
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BigBadBull
Old 09-02-2008, 05:49 PM #4 (permalink)  
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yes the pot would be the same size but what youre doing is trying to eliminate one beting round which will make a good diference since betting amounts increase geometrically. Here I would check call trn and evaluate rvr. But if you do barrel, atleast c/c rvr to a reasonable bet.
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yourfather
Old 09-02-2008, 05:52 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I also get in weirds spot like this sometimes and was wondering the same.

OOP when I check the turn for pot control after betting the flop with TPGK or similar hand, villians often fire and I need to make a decision about this turn and if you can also call a river bet. I understand pot control is used to see cheap showdowns with hands that have decent to good showdown value and to avoid building a huge pot when you can be behind decent % of the time.

Sometimes they fire just to steal and think you are giving up on a failed c-bet, they could have a draw, be floating etc...

I usually call because my TPGK is under repped. Obviously there are more variables to consider in real situations but I would like to hear more thoughts and see some more relevant hands.
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Clar17y
Old 09-02-2008, 06:00 PM #6 (permalink)  
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As i played it, and understanding that it wasn't the correct way to play it, the river is a definite fold?

Clar
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dalecooper
Old 09-02-2008, 06:23 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clar17y
As i played it, and understanding that it wasn't the correct way to play it, the river is a definite fold?
Super mega auto-fold. He has you beat 95% of the time.
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griffey24
Old 09-02-2008, 07:32 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 I don't mind how this was played.

KJ, QT, 9T, JT will all call you down at least till river and maybe sometimes even on river.

Most sets will raise you on flop, and QJ might even raise you on flop. J9 will probably call down, so you're value towning yourself vs that hand.

I think flop and turn bets are good. River could be b/f or c/f depending on your reads on his river play (calls too much? checks through marginal hands etc)
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meeloche
Old 09-02-2008, 07:57 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Without any fishy reads I'd bet flop and turn and c/f river.



 
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