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point out what I did wrong on this flopped trips hand

  
 
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alias2211
Old 10-04-2006, 06:57 PM     Post subject: point out what I did wrong on this flopped trips hand #1 (permalink)  
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i wont the hand and everything, but i think i played it less than optimally. please point out where different decisions might have resulted in a better sized pot. i'm not being results oriented, i think my line sucks in a general sense.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($616.20)
UTG ($692.20)
MP ($555)
CO ($1019.30)
Hero ($591)
SB ($2556)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8, J.
3 folds, Hero raises to $21, 1 fold, BB calls $15.

Flop: ($45) 8, Q, 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $45, BB raises to $111, Hero calls $66.

Turn: ($267) J (2 players)
BB bets $126, Hero calls $126.

River: ($519) 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $333 (All-In), BB folds.

Final Pot: $852

Results in white below:
Hero has 8h Jh (full house, eights full of jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins $852.
In answer to your question... it depends...
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Renton
Old 10-04-2006, 07:26 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 you played it perfect IMO

If you raise the turn it screams strength, given the fact that he check/raised you on the flop. If you 3bet the flop, it screams strength, given the dry board, and the fact that villain probably doesn't have a strong overpair.
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Ravageur
Old 10-04-2006, 07:28 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Yeah I don't see how you could have possibly played this differently. Value-betting the river and pushing the river equate the same thing IMO. He probably had air, oh well. NH
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Rondavu
Old 10-04-2006, 08:08 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Push the turn. It will scream draw. It looks like you picked up extra outs and might want to access equity, or your opponent percieves himself as having outs of his own at that point. IMHO, that's where you lost value.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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bode
Old 10-04-2006, 08:13 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 i dont know how else to play this.
Quote:
eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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Rondavu
Old 10-04-2006, 08:15 PM #6 (permalink)  
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This is a perfect turn to tickle a villains gamble. Hard to do that with 5 cards down. The fact is he probably folds anyway a lot, but he already put the dead money in, so take the rest once in a while. I think waiting for a straight or flush to hit on the end on a paired board at this level is like the Haha ambush. I'm not sure if it's worth sacrificing the value available on the turn, unless the villain is on the poor side.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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sandstorm
Old 10-04-2006, 08:23 PM #7 (permalink)  
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if he has someting, maybe he'll bet again on the river (or call a valuebet from you).

if he has nothing, he probably won't put anymore money in unless he bluffs again at the river.

he's already shown strength, if he has something you'll all-in anyway so why not let him bluff again if he has air?
>3

this is my favourite part of the post
it looks like angry boobs
 
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Rondavu
Old 10-04-2006, 08:31 PM #8 (permalink)  
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It has to do with how often he calls the turn push based on a variety of reasons. If it's often enough, that's where your value lies, not in playing river small ball.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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alias2211
Old 10-04-2006, 08:47 PM #9 (permalink)  
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to villain's credit, his flop raise was the perfect size, regardless of his holdings. it gave him options on every other street. as soon as he made it, i grimaced. look what it did:

- if i pushed flop, he probbaly only calls w/ a better hand or the tough shit 8.

- he can lead out turn for 1/2 pot and win the pot, or call/fold to my push

-a minraise from me on the turn makes no sense given stack sizes

-if i smooth call turn he can push or check and call/fold to my push.

damn nice raise size by him i'd say.
In answer to your question... it depends...
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alias2211
Old 10-04-2006, 08:49 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
This is a perfect turn to tickle a villains gamble. Hard to do that with 5 cards down. The fact is he probably folds anyway a lot, but he already put the dead money in, so take the rest once in a while. I think waiting for a straight or flush to hit on the end on a paired board at this level is like the Haha ambush. I'm not sure if it's worth sacrificing the value available on the turn, unless the villain is on the poor side.
i like this line more than what i did. the temptation in this spot is to try to let him catch up to a worse hand (the HaHa ambush). but then if he doesn't, you're out of just about all value.
In answer to your question... it depends...
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Renton
Old 10-04-2006, 09:53 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
Push the turn. It will scream draw. It looks like you picked up extra outs and might want to access equity, or your opponent percieves himself as having outs of his own at that point. IMHO, that's where you lost value.
no draw calls this flop

pushing the turn represents exactly the hand he as IMO.


I think he played it perfect, because i htink the only value to be gotten after the turn is if villain bets the river.
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Rondavu
Old 10-04-2006, 10:37 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
Push the turn. It will scream draw. It looks like you picked up extra outs and might want to access equity, or your opponent percieves himself as having outs of his own at that point. IMHO, that's where you lost value.
no draw calls this flop.
Suited Q of diamonds. I know I'n stretching, but the point is to put the idea in your opponents head. The entire float range could be drawing on the turn. I do concede a good point made however.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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Warpe
Old 10-04-2006, 10:46 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias2211
-a minraise from me on the turn makes no sense given stack sizes
So what? It's the perfect way to extract more value. A draw can't fold.
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alias2211
Old 10-04-2006, 11:43 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by alias2211
-a minraise from me on the turn makes no sense given stack sizes
So what? It's the perfect way to extract more value. A draw can't fold.
the pot on the turn starts at $267, and he bets $126 into me making it $493. if i minraise and he calls another $126, that puts him OOP on the river with $267 behind staring down a pot size of $519. in a general sense, he has called off 2/3 of his stack OOP and now has no way to push me off even most Jx hands at this point in the progression of the hand. he can't draw on a minraise to the crappy implied odds of two 100BB stacks. if he is going to make that bad of a play, then he can't be too far away from calling a push. and you get the added benefit of my push possibly appearing to be BS. minraise is less likely to be called than a push.

his flop checkraise size/ halfpot turn leadout is looking better all the time.
In answer to your question... it depends...
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