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Are plays like this +EV or -EV?

  
 
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johnnyBuz
Old 05-21-2006, 11:46 PM     Post subject: Are plays like this +EV or -EV? #1 (permalink)  
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Everybody limps PF. I put in a 7x BB raise to account for limpers. They all fold. Can we assume everybody limped with mediocre hands, and even if I got a caller on a K-x-x flop I would most likely be able to c-bet him out of it if he didn't catch some crazy 2-pair?

By the way, I just sat down at the table like 1 or 2 hands ago. Had no reads on anybody and nobody had any reads on me.

PokerStars Game #5010736368: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/05/21 - 19:43:44 (ET)
Table 'Lacroute' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: messier111 ($56.50 in chips)
Seat 2: Crazycupcake ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 3: flopTriver ($48 in chips)
Seat 4: BigBawlz ($23.90 in chips)
Seat 5: MJMECM ($10 in chips)
Seat 6: johnnyBuz ($24.65 in chips)
messier111: posts small blind $0.10
Crazycupcake: posts big blind $0.25
MJMECM: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johnnyBuz [Tc 3c]
flopTriver: calls $0.25
BigBawlz: calls $0.25
MJMECM: checks
johnnyBuz: raises $1.50 to $1.75
messier111: folds
Crazycupcake: folds
flopTriver: folds
BigBawlz: folds
MJMECM: folds
johnnyBuz collected $1.35 from pot
johnnyBuz: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.35 | Rake $0
Seat 1: messier111 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Crazycupcake (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: flopTriver folded before Flop
Seat 4: BigBawlz folded before Flop
Seat 5: MJMECM folded before Flop
Seat 6: johnnyBuz (button) collected ($1.35)
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johnnyBuz
Old 05-22-2006, 12:16 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Same situation. Agree / disagree?

PokerStars Game #5011071179: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/05/21 - 20:12:26 (ET)
Table 'Lacroute' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: messier111 ($51.15 in chips)
Seat 2: PeTpOs ($11.40 in chips)
Seat 3: flopTriver ($32.70 in chips)
Seat 4: BigBawlz ($18.10 in chips)
Seat 5: Parry30 ($21.70 in chips)
Seat 6: johnnyBuz ($32 in chips)
PeTpOs: posts small blind $0.10
flopTriver: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johnnyBuz [3d Kd]
BigBawlz: calls $0.25
Parry30: calls $0.25
johnnyBuz: raises $1.25 to $1.50
messier111: folds
PeTpOs: folds
flopTriver: folds
BigBawlz: folds
Parry30: calls $1.25
*** FLOP *** [8c Qs 2d]
Parry30: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $2.50
Parry30: folds
johnnyBuz collected $3.45 from pot
johnnyBuz: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.60 | Rake $0.15
Board [8c Qs 2d]
Seat 1: messier111 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: PeTpOs (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: flopTriver (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: BigBawlz folded before Flop
Seat 5: Parry30 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: johnnyBuz collected ($3.45)
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johnnyBuz
Old 05-22-2006, 12:22 AM #3 (permalink)  
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And the same thing happened the next orbit. Should I be doing these less often, or continue stealing if the table is allowing it?

PokerStars Game #5011134066: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/05/21 - 20:17:42 (ET)
Table 'Lacroute' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: messier111 ($55.20 in chips)
Seat 2: PeTpOs ($15.90 in chips)
Seat 3: flopTriver ($32.35 in chips)
Seat 4: BigBawlz ($15.95 in chips)
Seat 5: Parry30 ($14.60 in chips)
Seat 6: johnnyBuz ($32.10 in chips)
messier111: posts small blind $0.10
PeTpOs: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johnnyBuz [Qd 9s]
flopTriver: folds
BigBawlz: calls $0.25
Parry30: calls $0.25
johnnyBuz: raises $1.25 to $1.50
messier111: folds
PeTpOs: folds
BigBawlz: folds
Parry30: calls $1.25
*** FLOP *** [Th 8s Ad]
Parry30: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $2.50
Parry30: folds
johnnyBuz collected $3.45 from pot
johnnyBuz: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.60 | Rake $0.15
Board [Th 8s Ad]
Seat 1: messier111 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: PeTpOs (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: flopTriver folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: BigBawlz folded before Flop
Seat 5: Parry30 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: johnnyBuz (button) collected ($3.45)
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mcatdog
Old 05-22-2006, 12:30 AM #4 (permalink)  
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It's fine if you don't do it too often. If you overdo it then even the 25NL players are going to figure it out and take your money.

And I'm not a fan of doing this with T3, I like to have a hand that at least has some potential to hit a flop hard.
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Renton
Old 05-22-2006, 12:30 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 not oop
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johnnyBuz
Old 05-22-2006, 12:34 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
not oop
I was dealer all 3 times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
It's fine if you don't do it too often. If you overdo it then even the 25NL players are going to figure it out and take your money.

And I'm not a fan of doing this with T3, I like to have a hand that at least has some potential to hit a flop hard.
You wouldn't consider that first hand collecting dead money? Obviously none of them wanted to invest too much into the pot. Probably some low suited connectors or something. Not worth calling a raise.

Looks like dead money to me so go in for the steal.
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Lukie
Old 05-22-2006, 02:40 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 I would say that a player of your calibur making plays like this would inevitably lead to them going busto, but that has already happened.
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jackvance
Old 05-22-2006, 02:46 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 This is not good play. If you must do it, do it with something that can flop a monster atleast.
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aislephive
Old 05-22-2006, 03:36 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Stealing the dead money is overrated, what are you going to do steal a couple quarters? Is it really worth it? I don't think so.

Johnny, I would advise you becoming a member of cardrunners, it will give you a better foundation for 6 man NL cash games.
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dsaxton
Old 05-22-2006, 03:38 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Pointless.
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johnnyBuz
Old 05-22-2006, 04:04 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Pointless.
Pointless at the limits I'm playing, or pointless in general?

Is this more of an SnG move rather then ring games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aislephive
Stealing the dead money is overrated, what are you going to do steal a couple quarters? Is it really worth it? I don't think so.

Johnny, I would advise you becoming a member of cardrunners, it will give you a better foundation for 6 man NL cash games.
Is it worth it to keep up your image of aggression so when people do call you, and you get monsters, you get paid off?

Are you a member there ais? Do you mean register so I can watch the videos and all that stuff?
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r8ed
Old 05-22-2006, 05:15 AM #12 (permalink)  
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If you are going to do this, then do it on the button or from the blinds - basically when you saw what everyone at the table does ahead of you. Do it with something that has some implied strength though. It's not bad to do this to keep your aggressive image. If I get cold cards, I tend to do this so when I do raise a good hand I don't get all folds.

Give the guy a break. The scenarios here are bad but the concept is still valid.
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mcatdog
Old 05-22-2006, 05:48 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Yes he means register so you can watch the videos. I second aislephive's recommendation, CardRunners has helped my shorthanded game out a ton. To get a feel for what the videos are like you should definitely watch the free video that's up on the front page. It's one of the best videos on the site IMO.
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aislephive
Old 05-22-2006, 08:39 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Pointless.
Pointless at the limits I'm playing, or pointless in general?

Is this more of an SnG move rather then ring games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aislephive
Stealing the dead money is overrated, what are you going to do steal a couple quarters? Is it really worth it? I don't think so.

Johnny, I would advise you becoming a member of cardrunners, it will give you a better foundation for 6 man NL cash games.
Is it worth it to keep up your image of aggression so when people do call you, and you get monsters, you get paid off?

Are you a member there ais? Do you mean register so I can watch the videos and all that stuff?
People call you down with crap at 25nl even if you haven't played a hand in an hour, trust me (same could be said about 200nl to be honest). If you make a loose raise in position that's fine, but T3s is just total garbage and you can pick better spots. I think hand selection is very underrated at 6-max.

About cardrunners, yes I have been a member there for quite a while and it has really helped my play. Almost all of the videos are 6 max NL cash games, along with other stuff like MTTs/SNGs to keep those people happy as well, but it's a great site to learn the basics, which I think you are lacking to some degree. You'll never see Green Plastic open limp like ever, let alone QJo utg. They go over a lot of basics and some more advanced things as well. Definitely a good place to improve your game and they also have a very good poker forum as well.
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Renton
Old 05-22-2006, 04:03 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 sorry I thought it was a full table.
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dsaxton
Old 05-22-2006, 04:31 PM #16 (permalink)  
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It doesn't make sense to get involved with complete garbage in no limit just for the sake of winning a couple blinds. If it is "+EV," it's only barely so, while involving a disproportionate amount of risk.

You don't have to win every pot. Just fold.
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gabe
Old 05-23-2006, 07:08 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
It doesn't make sense to get involved with complete garbage in no limit just for the sake of winning a couple blinds.
lol

raising in position is what strong players do, but i would consider tightening up your standards
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