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Jager
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12-12-2007, 09:50 AM
Post subject: Playing styles and winners
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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I am curious to see what everyone thinks about the composition of the top 5% of players are at any level 200nl+. Lets say for argument sake that the top 5% consists of 10 players.
How many of these 10 players are:
A) Nits
B) ABC Tags
C) Tricky Tags
D) Lags
E) Something else
Also could you give a brief explanation of why you think that.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Id think pretty much all of them are TAGs with a very small number of LAGs. I don't think abc tags or tricky tags covers it though. Its more "thinking TAGs" who usually play abc but are capable of adjusting their play in certain spots if necessary. Its certainly not people who just like to slowplay or whatever.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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3 of your 4 possibilities are TAGgy players. i think you just answered your own question. but, i also think that a "good" LAG carries a winrate that is double a standard TAG's.
(i consider "nits" to be "poor TAGs.")
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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C, D
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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xyu
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 49
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aren't there any decent looks at this using actual stats? wasn't there something with the poker tracker auto rate shorthanded rules that someone set up and looked at the different styles and categories, how many players were in each category and how succesful they were? someone with a big database could actually give us real information on this right?
what does everyone consider LAG statswise btw?
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noble007
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 531
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it took me a while but I think this is the page.
There is a table in the middle that shows the various playing styles & what % of these players are achieving xbb/100
maybe someone can put the image up on this thread, I dont know how.
http://www.andymcnish.btinternet.co.uk/newauto.htm
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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5 tricky tags
4 lags
1 something else
the reason i left out nits and ABC tags is because i think that they can win at those levels, but i dont think they make up top 5% of the field. now if the question were for 10 NL my answer would probably be the opposite. ABC tags and nits would make up 80% probably.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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noble007
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 531
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Oh and can u explain the numbers to me?
I get that I'm supposed to look for xtra loose, cs, and showdown muppets.
& it looks like Tag and ultra aggressive are the big winners?
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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passive donks always kill me...
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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thats because you spew into them.
oh, me, too. 
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
passive donks always kill me...
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Me too, but I somehow don't think their in the top 5%.
Alright lets try to catagorize. I'll use PFR instead of VPIP, because VPIP varies too much for solid players although the ratio of VPIP to PFR must be within 3 to 2(ie there will be no 50/15 players). So for a PFR of 15 the max VPIP will be ~25.
Nit: PFR <12
Tag: PFR 12-20
Lag: PFR ~20+
Note: I probably think there should be a group between Tag and Lag with a PFR 18-22.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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C) makes up the vast majority of big winners, and there are always a sparse few specks of D) that win big.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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TAP: Tight/passive, what most people at 200nl and below consider to be TAG, when it's really far from the case. Tight passives dont thin vbet well at all, dont play back at all, dont bluff, and make big folds.
TAG: What many low stakes players consider somewhat laggy. A guy who does some bluffs, raises his draw a lot, can make big folds and generally has the same felt range as a TAP. Both TAP and TAG have similar stats/
LAG: Guy who has gigantic bluffing frequency and plays super loose preflop. Greater than 20 PFR and greater than 24 VPIP. Makes very very thin vbets and has much looser stacking ranges than any other player.
my 2 cents.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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i dont think most good lags bluff too much
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
LAG: Guy who has gigantic bluffing frequency and plays super loose preflop. Greater than 20 PFR and greater than 24 VPIP. Makes very very thin vbets and has much looser stacking ranges than any other player.
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Here's the thing, I have seen a total of 3 players who played like this at 200nl this year that I had any reasonable amount of hands with(they have all since moved up or are gone from 1/2). I know there are a few Lags regs at 2/4+, but really how many of them are top 5%?
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Kits
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 129
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
TAP: Tight/passive, what most people at 200nl and below consider to be TAG, when it's really far from the case. Tight passives dont thin vbet well at all, dont play back at all, dont bluff, and make big folds.
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Damn you.....I've been perfectly summed up in one sentence......*sigh*.....haha
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i think im a tricky tag who might not be the biggest winner at the limits i play but im more equipped to beat higher levels
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I swarm with bees and diseases, and even if ur DJ was Jesus you could never fuck with these kids...
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it's the noun meltdown from the outer shell now smell the burning flesh fresh from the hellbound!
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Mr. Larry M and punketty i think should easily be described as laggs right?
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choccypie
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
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I think there's more LAGs at higher stakes than there are TAGs, and LAGs are better postflop players in general, hence them being able to play more hands.
I know someone who plays 400NL and someone else who plays 400NL+ and they're both really LAG
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