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leon_rts
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04-21-2004, 10:50 AM
Post subject: Playing Garbage in NL
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 127
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Im a new player who got introduced to poker few months ago and since then ive been playing on a regular basis and reading alot.
Ive been playing at PokerStars at 0.01/0.02 NL and 0.10/0.25 NL.
My question focus more on the penny penny poker the 0.01/0.02 NL
the 0.02 is almost irrelevant, with the possible payout if it hits anything good, and when the Garbage Hits Two pairs or better it often catches everyone offGuard and if not its just an easy fold less 0.02 big deal considering sometimes you can get away with 5, 6 bucks when the garbage hits.
I Know this is irrevelant on the long run and as time goes and ill move up to higher limits, but hey one of the principal concepts as far is it seems to me is Addapt your style to table , and in penny penny poker Garbage Has been paying Out really well.
Opinions any1?
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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Sounds like you are picking up bad poker habits with such small blinds. You should never play garbage, even if it only costs you 2 cents.
The worst part of playing garbage is that you think it hit but someone else has your garbage beat.
Also, if you follow the advice that playing is one long lifetime session, you will lose money in the long run statistically by playing garbage.
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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leon_rts
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 127
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Yes in the 0.10/0.25 tables no way i play garbage but belive me in Penny poker it pays out because the pots usually get at leat 15x bigger than the BB in reaching sometimes 300 400 times the bb.
So if you just to play too see the flop and it hits belive me it pays out on penny.
by the way when i mean garbage its not total garbage , a light kind of garbage one gap suited A2 A3,... etc.
not in 0.10/0.25  there i play tannaka starting hands 
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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Now that you've clarified what "garbage" means, I suppose that it makes a bit of sense. You're playing starting hands that have good potentiol for straights/flushes more often, and because of the huge number of limpers in every pot you can get a nice return on a straight or a flush. If you start playing 72o just because it costs a penny then I'd have to say that's an obvious mistake but it doesn't sound like you're doing that.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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I think if you can see the flop for .02 and the pot is usually $5, I would be playing a lot of garbage. That is, garbage that can turn into a straight or a HIGH flush.
For a discussion of this concept, see www.lowlimitholdem.com . Obviously it is for limit play, but their basic premise is to see as many cheap flops as you can and fold out unless you flop a monster.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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Rags hit 2 pair or better like 1 out of 20 times or so. Then when it hits if you don't have top pair you're likely on a thin edge and even if you do have top pair it's more likely a 70/30 situation. Nowhere close to the kind of implied odds you get with pocket 2s.
Save rags for the big blind. Don't even bother from the SB unless it's suited.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Rags hit 2 pair or better like 1 out of 20 times or so. Then when it hits if you don't have top pair you're likely on a thin edge and even if you do have top pair it's more likely a 70/30 situation.
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Dude..
You pay .02 to see the flop and flop 2 pair or better 1 in 20 times. Say you win 70% of those. That takes us to 1 in 30 times where you will take down the pot. So for $0.60 (30 * $0.02), you will win one pot.
If your figures and my math are correct, then the avg. pot would have to be greater than $0.60 for this to be a winning strategy. Hes saying the avg. pot is $5.00!!! And we're only talking about FLOPPING two pair or better! If you can check to the turn or river, your odds get even better!!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheNatural
You pay .02 to see the flop and flop 2 pair or better 1 in 20 times. Say you win 70% of those. That takes us to 1 in 30 times where you will take down the pot. So for $0.60 (30 * $0.02), you will win one pot.
If your figures and my math are correct, then the avg. pot would have to be greater than $0.60 for this to be a winning strategy. Hes saying the avg. pot is $5.00!!! And we're only talking about FLOPPING two pair or better! If you can check to the turn or river, your odds get even better!!
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Scrub 2 pair isn't a 70% winner in a multi-pot, the 70/30 thing was heads up. I don't see you getting to $5.00 without a multi-pot.
In that game I would be playing...
Any pocket pair
Tens or better suited
Ax and Kx suited
AKo AQo
T9s 98s 87s
Flush draws are the bomb in multi-pots. In an out of control game hands like AJo, KQo, KJo, etc. should hit the muck.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheNatural
You pay .02 to see the flop and flop 2 pair or better 1 in 20 times. Say you win 70% of those. That takes us to 1 in 30 times where you will take down the pot. So for $0.60 (30 * $0.02), you will win one pot.
If your figures and my math are correct, then the avg. pot would have to be greater than $0.60 for this to be a winning strategy. Hes saying the avg. pot is $5.00!!! And we're only talking about FLOPPING two pair or better! If you can check to the turn or river, your odds get even better!!
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Scrub 2 pair isn't a 70% winner in a multi-pot, the 70/30 thing was heads up. I don't see you getting to $5.00 without a multi-pot. |
Fnord, that is true, but can you get to $0.61 without a multipot? If so, this strategy is profitable! What do the odds decrease to with a multipot? If the pot would get to $4, you only need to win 15% of the time for this to be profitable!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheNatural
Fnord, that is true, but can you get to $0.61 without a multipot? If so, this strategy is profitable! What do the odds decrease to with a multipot? If the pot would get to $4, you only need to win 15% of the time for this to be profitable!
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...you also need to factor in all times you hit, throw in your stack and get outdrawn or outflopped. I'll bring my sets, flushes, occasional straights mixed in with constant TPTK and overpairs. You can bring your scrub two pair. We'll see who's landing more chips from the fish.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Yeah, I was oversimplifying it to make the point. It would defintely be hard to make a mathematical model. I guess the best way is to see who has the tallest stack at the end of the night.
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Toasty
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: England UK
Posts: 1,522
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Ok Challenge match is on with all the profits donated to the TBF (Toasty's Beer Fund).
You both start with $10.00.
You get 1-2 hours game time to see who makes the most money :P, my money is on the person who has the better % of SDs won 
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Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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I play at Paradise poker at everything from the $50 NL tables to the $2 NL tables. I get pretty screwed up when I play 2 tables at once with different stakes. That is when I look at price rather than size.
What I look at is the relative size of the bet. 10 cents in a $2 table is a lot different than 10 cents in a $10 table. Look at the blinds, and the minimum raise. The same goes for late in tournaments when the blinds raise huge (like 8,000 / 16,000 a 16,000 bet should scare you too much, 16,000 is a lot, but it's the minimum raise)
You can't calculate pot odds very well in NL games, but you can use the same principles if you look at bet sizes rather than the bet amounts.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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