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mcatdog
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11-28-2006, 02:19 PM
Post subject: play a hand with me: quads ZOMG! (part 3)
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Here's a hand where I flopped quads and didn't know what to do. I suspect that I blew a chance to win a huge pot, but I'm not sure. I'll do one of those threads where I post a decision and leave people a day or two to talk about it before I post the next one.
My opponent in the hand is Proofrock. I've seen him at 1/2 NL before, he's a 2+2er and a winning player I assume. He lets himself get pushed around too easily IMO, so I've stolen a couple of medium-sized pots from him already this session.
I have 55 on the button and he raises. Re-raising is always an option, but given that stacks are deep and I've already been playing back at him a fair amount, a call seemed clear.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($482.50)
UTG ($200)
MP ($289.55)
Hero ($632.65)
SB ($210)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 5 , 5 .
1 fold, MP raises to $8, Hero calls $8, 2 folds.
Flop: ($19) 5 , 5 , 9 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero?
I don't know how often he checks this type of flop in a heads-up pot after raising pre-flop, but I get the sense that he doesn't do it very often. I didn't know quite what to make of this spot. Check, bet 1/2 pot, bet 3/4 pot?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
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I bet a weak c-bet-ish $12 here.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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Make it 14$ and maybe he plays back with or without a hand.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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auto bet here. Theres a good chance he folds, but as a decent player, he has to know that you're autobetting here with any two (you are, right?).
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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you say hes easy to push around, so i would bet air here and check quads.
i dont slowplay much but this, if any, is the time to do it.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
auto bet here. Theres a good chance he folds, but as a decent player, he has to know that you're autobetting here with any two (you are, right?).
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yeah probably
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Fnord
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11-28-2006, 08:36 PM
Post subject: Re: play a hand with me: quads ZOMG!
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#7 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
He lets himself get pushed around too easily IMO, so I've stolen a couple of medium-sized pots from him already this session.
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Bet if you think he's fixing to take a stand.
If he's not or playing like 8+ tables, I like a check.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
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I agree with gabe and Fnord. Looks to me like he could care less about that flop, you, or losing $8. Maybe he's raping a few tables for nice rates already, and isn't bothered by you. In a hand like this, it really has to do with finding the street with the least amount of fold equity and betting it. Will the turn scare him more than the flop didn't help him. I would go with the later given his action.
The key is you've been giving him trouble already, he missed the flop, and this is exactly the kind of flop you might autoraise his continuation given your history with him. Why should he bother losing more money when you're just going to apply pressure and make him fold his empty pocket?
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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dsaxton
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Yeah, check seems good. It's unlikely he even has a draw to call you with, as semi-bluffing in his spot would be pretty standard. He most likely whiffed with a hand like K-J and has no interest in the pot. Given your description, he's just checking with the intention of folding.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
The key is you've been giving him trouble already, he missed the flop, and this is exactly the kind of flop you might autoraise his continuation given your history with him. Why should he bother losing more money when you're just going to apply pressure and make him fold his empty pocket?
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This definitely could be what's happening here, BUT there are plenty of TAGs at these stakes who don't apply your logic as often as they should. They don't start check-folding some of their whiffed flops the way they should against people who like to play back at them. If they do check a flop, it's because they have a little something and they're either getting tricky or practicing pot control. I try to steal the pot most of the time when a PFR checks to me and I feel like I haven't been taking it down often enough. What's your experience in these spots?
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
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OK, time for the next decision. For the reasons in what I just posted, I decided to make a standard 2/3 pot bet and hope he plays back at me.
Hero: bets $13
Proofrock: raises $27 to $40
Hero: WTF
Now what?
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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call, hope a scare card doesn't come. On the turn raise his $60 bet to all in after thinking for like an hour.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Call, I'd only re-raise here to 3rd level him.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
call, hope a scare card doesn't come. On the turn raise his $60 bet to all in after thinking for like an hour.
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If he falls for this he's really stupid.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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yea. I never timebank with huge hands. I try to act not too fast, not too slow. About a 5-6 second decision.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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call and see what happens.....that was easy
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
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Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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Call. Turn plan: check if he checks. Call if it's a decent bet (2/3 pot). Shove if it's a smaller bet.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Call, I'd only re-raise here to 3rd level him.
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Yep I called pretty quickly because the only hand that can easily stand a re-raise is 99 (which I don't think he'd play this way and if he has that we're definitely getting all-in anyway). Flush draws will hate getting re-raised on a paired board and there's also a good chance he has a terrible hand that's just being stubborn.
It made me wonder though if we're ever re-raising any hands in this spot? In general I hate the idea of re-raising here with a hand like 8 7, but only calling with trips or full houses.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
It made me wonder though if we're ever re-raising any hands in this spot?
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This is exactly why I might re-raise quads. He might think strong-is-weak and play for stacks with a big pair in the hole.
Calling to see how much money he wants to put into the pot just screams strength to the aware.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Call. Turn plan: check if he checks. Call if it's a decent bet (2/3 pot). Shove if it's a smaller bet.
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I think you have to get it in on the turn if you call flop raise.
Pot is 100 with 200 behind. If he has a f/d you can't check behind because if he misses you won't get his stack.
I'm also not sure that a 3 bet on the flop is terrible. Make sure he has 3:1 so he will at least call with f/d.
Although check behind turn push river might get paid off with any pair.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
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I'm at work so I don't have the HH but the turn was a brick and he checked. I thought this was the toughest decision of the hand.
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