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Play along! Top and bottom, reraiser, scary board

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Warpe

04-25-2006, 11:09 PM Post subject: Play along! Top and bottom, reraiser, scary board

#1 (permalink)

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This is exactly my 8th hand at the table, but CO and BB both appear to be aggro...

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $47.75
UTG+1: $40.75
CO: $44.55
Button: $55.75
SB: $26.55
BB: $38.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A

Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 calls, CO raises to $4.55, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: A

($15.9, 3 players)
BB bets $0.5, Hero ???

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aislephive

04-26-2006, 11:09 AM

#2 (permalink)

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I would raise to $10 and proceed cautiously from there. We're obviously worried about the CO, but he has to have a better hand to stick around after our flop reraise. If he has something like AJ/KQ and won't fold then you will find another spot to get all of his chips. However common reraising hand ranges are obviously AA-TT AK-AQ, and most of that range just got hit in the face by that flop, and we know TT-JJ instafolds this flop to a bet and a raise.

r8ed

04-26-2006, 02:02 PM

#3 (permalink)

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I don't call raises with AQ any more unless I'm heads up vs. a donk - especially OOP. Even when they are sooted, I get suckered into hands like this where it costs too much to find out I was behind the whole time.

Renton

04-26-2006, 02:38 PM

#4 (permalink)

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The call preflop isn't bad since he just minimum raised you. However, when you make that call, you are looking to flop the nuts or two queens. At least half of the average player's preflop 3 betting range has you drawing practically dead on that flop.

I would raise to 6, fold to any reraise and fold to any turn bet. If the villain were tight, I would probably just call the minbet and fold to any significant betting on the turn.

zenbitz

04-26-2006, 08:30 PM

#5 (permalink)

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I am always torn by the silly little min bets. Sometimes, I just raise them with air on general principle. But sometimes, they are raise fishing.... Given it's the BB calling along, I bet he has JJ/TT/JT/KQ/AT/AJ/QJ... probably not KJ/KT/QT unless he super loose.

So, he has a single pair and a gutshot, or bottom two, or the nuts.

I would definitly NOT raise this flop bet with CO yet to act, unless he was both loose pre-flop and weak post flop (... but usually these guys just limp in pre-flop, so he's got sumphin)

I would flat call the stupid .50. 30:1 pot odds! CO will probably raise, and you can close out the betting depending on how much the raise is and what BB idjit does. If CO calls behind, well, you might have just give a cheap draw at a gutshot... but you got a cheap draw at a boat! (assuming no one flopped a set)

Warpe

04-26-2006, 09:59 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Okay, so we've got one raise to $10 and proceed cautiously, one raise to $6 and fold to any reraise, one fold to the raise preflop and one call the minbet. I chose the first...

Stack sizes:
Hero: $47.75
UTG+1: $40.75
CO: $44.55
Button: $55.75
SB: $26.55
BB: $38.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A

Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 calls, CO raises to $4.55, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: A

($15.9, 3 players)
BB bets $0.5, Hero raises to $10, CO folds, BB raises to $20 Hero ???

So CO's out of the action. His hand obviously wasn't as good as it first appeared. But BB seems to have some confidence. What now?

aislephive

04-26-2006, 10:58 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Now you fold.

Miffed22001

04-27-2006, 01:43 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aislephive

Now you fold.

agreed

no way AQ good here in most situations
Unless you have a very good read you are good and opp is a donk drop it. 9.9/10 times this is an insta fold

Warpe

04-27-2006, 01:55 AM

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Is the money behind ( or lack thereof) a consideration?

dalecooper

04-27-2006, 12:55 PM

#10 (permalink)

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No - except that it means that if you draw out on him somehow you won't make anything back on your bad call. He clearly wants action and would be perfectly happy for you to put him all in.

CO probably had JJ or TT.

Warpe

04-27-2006, 01:36 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

no way AQ good here in most situations
Unless you have a very good read you are good and opp is a donk drop it. 9.9/10 times this is an insta fold

Well, after 8 hands, I can't honestly say I had a "very good" read that opp was a donk, but I did detect a certain donkish air.

Results:

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A

Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 calls, CO raises to $4.55, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: A

($15.9, 3 players)
BB bets $0.5, Hero raises to $10, CO folds, BB raises to $20, Hero raises all-in $43.2, BB calls all-in $14.7.
Uncalled bets: $8.5 returned to Hero.

Turn: 9

($85.3, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $85.3)

River: 3

($85.3, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $85.3)

Results:
Final pot: $85.3
Hero showed Ah Qh
BB showed As 7s

Regardless of the result though, I realize that this would be a very loose/bad play on my part under most circumstances against a decent opp. So the question is, what kind of read would you need to make it?

dalecooper

04-27-2006, 02:06 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Villain here was a total donk. That's donkishness of the highest rank. Personally, I would need that kind of read - a read that said villain was highly inclined to deploy weird little bets and check-raises, or re-raises, with hands that were very weak even on dangerous boards. I'd need to see him do it two or three times. And then I'd starting looking him up regularly with any good hand.

Miffed22001

04-27-2006, 03:59 PM

#13 (permalink)

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If you read donkish ness then go with it
However as a rule, AQ no good here me thinks.
Nh regardless

zenbitz

04-28-2006, 10:59 PM

#14 (permalink)

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You so smart!

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