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Phil Hellmuth's Top 10 Hands

  
 
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Eric
Old 12-25-2003, 06:33 AM     Post subject: Phil Hellmuth's Top 10 Hands #1 (permalink)  
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 I have heard that Phil Hellmuth has the following as his top 10 hands in the limit section of his book:
1)AA
2)KK
3)QQ
4)AK
5)JJ
6)TT
7)99
8)88
9)AQ
10)77
It seems odd to me that 77 is in there and AJ and KQ are not in there. Sklansky rates AJ suited and KQ suited in group 2. Sklansky rates 77 in group 5. What do you guys think? Has anyone on this board read Phil's book?
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Eric
Old 12-25-2003, 06:33 AM     Post subject: Phil Hellmuth's Top 10 Hands #2 (permalink)  
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 I have heard that Phil Hellmuth has the following as his top 10 hands in the limit section of his book:
1)AA
2)KK
3)QQ
4)AK
5)JJ
6)TT
7)99
8)88
9)AQ
10)77
It seems odd to me that 77 is in there and AJ and KQ are not in there. Sklansky rates AJ suited and KQ suited in group 2. Sklansky rates 77 in group 5. What do you guys think? Has anyone on this board read Phil's book?
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Eric
Old 12-25-2003, 06:33 AM     Post subject: Phil Hellmuth's Top 10 Hands #3 (permalink)  
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 I have heard that Phil Hellmuth has the following as his top 10 hands in the limit section of his book:
1)AA
2)KK
3)QQ
4)AK
5)JJ
6)TT
7)99
8)88
9)AQ
10)77
It seems odd to me that 77 is in there and AJ and KQ are not in there. Sklansky rates AJ suited and KQ suited in group 2. Sklansky rates 77 in group 5. What do you guys think? Has anyone on this board read Phil's book?
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Eric
Old 12-25-2003, 06:33 AM     Post subject: Phil Hellmuth's Top 10 Hands #4 (permalink)  
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 I have heard that Phil Hellmuth has the following as his top 10 hands in the limit section of his book:
1)AA
2)KK
3)QQ
4)AK
5)JJ
6)TT
7)99
8)88
9)AQ
10)77
It seems odd to me that 77 is in there and AJ and KQ are not in there. Sklansky rates AJ suited and KQ suited in group 2. Sklansky rates 77 in group 5. What do you guys think? Has anyone on this board read Phil's book?
Reply With Quote
Eric
Old 12-25-2003, 06:33 AM     Post subject: Phil Hellmuth's Top 10 Hands #5 (permalink)  
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 I have heard that Phil Hellmuth has the following as his top 10 hands in the limit section of his book:
1)AA
2)KK
3)QQ
4)AK
5)JJ
6)TT
7)99
8)88
9)AQ
10)77
It seems odd to me that 77 is in there and AJ and KQ are not in there. Sklansky rates AJ suited and KQ suited in group 2. Sklansky rates 77 in group 5. What do you guys think? Has anyone on this board read Phil's book?
Reply With Quote
Eric
Old 12-25-2003, 06:33 AM     Post subject: Phil Hellmuth's Top 10 Hands #6 (permalink)  
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 I have heard that Phil Hellmuth has the following as his top 10 hands in the limit section of his book:
1)AA
2)KK
3)QQ
4)AK
5)JJ
6)TT
7)99
8)88
9)AQ
10)77
It seems odd to me that 77 is in there and AJ and KQ are not in there. Sklansky rates AJ suited and KQ suited in group 2. Sklansky rates 77 in group 5. What do you guys think? Has anyone on this board read Phil's book?
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Fnord
Old 12-26-2003, 07:30 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Looks more like a no limit ranking.

Personally, I find suites less valuable in no limit. The betting can quickly cut off your ablity to draw to them on implied odds. Also, once you have 3-4 cards of your suit on the board getting others without a weaker flush to pay you is difficult. Finally, in an aggressive pre-flop game where 1-2 other players see the flop when you have a good hand, the chance of the flush draw hitting is very low.

From a domination perspective I understand the rankings

Code:
Hand, dominated by, # of unique hands dominated by
AA, none, 0
KK, AA, 6 
QQ, AA KK, 12
AK, AA KK, 12
JJ, AA KK QQ, 18 
TT, AA KK QQ JJ, 24
99, AA KK QQ JJ TT, 30
88, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99, 36
AQ, AA KK QQ AK, 34
77, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88, 42

KQ, (AA) KK QQ AK AQ, (3 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 50 
AJ, AA (KK) (QQ) JJ AK AQ, (4 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 56
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Fnord
Old 12-26-2003, 07:30 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Looks more like a no limit ranking.

Personally, I find suites less valuable in no limit. The betting can quickly cut off your ablity to draw to them on implied odds. Also, once you have 3-4 cards of your suit on the board getting others without a weaker flush to pay you is difficult. Finally, in an aggressive pre-flop game where 1-2 other players see the flop when you have a good hand, the chance of the flush draw hitting is very low.

From a domination perspective I understand the rankings

Code:
Hand, dominated by, # of unique hands dominated by
AA, none, 0
KK, AA, 6 
QQ, AA KK, 12
AK, AA KK, 12
JJ, AA KK QQ, 18 
TT, AA KK QQ JJ, 24
99, AA KK QQ JJ TT, 30
88, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99, 36
AQ, AA KK QQ AK, 34
77, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88, 42

KQ, (AA) KK QQ AK AQ, (3 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 50 
AJ, AA (KK) (QQ) JJ AK AQ, (4 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 56
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Fnord
Old 12-26-2003, 07:30 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Looks more like a no limit ranking.

Personally, I find suites less valuable in no limit. The betting can quickly cut off your ablity to draw to them on implied odds. Also, once you have 3-4 cards of your suit on the board getting others without a weaker flush to pay you is difficult. Finally, in an aggressive pre-flop game where 1-2 other players see the flop when you have a good hand, the chance of the flush draw hitting is very low.

From a domination perspective I understand the rankings

Code:
Hand, dominated by, # of unique hands dominated by
AA, none, 0
KK, AA, 6 
QQ, AA KK, 12
AK, AA KK, 12
JJ, AA KK QQ, 18 
TT, AA KK QQ JJ, 24
99, AA KK QQ JJ TT, 30
88, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99, 36
AQ, AA KK QQ AK, 34
77, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88, 42

KQ, (AA) KK QQ AK AQ, (3 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 50 
AJ, AA (KK) (QQ) JJ AK AQ, (4 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 56
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Fnord
Old 12-26-2003, 07:30 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Looks more like a no limit ranking.

Personally, I find suites less valuable in no limit. The betting can quickly cut off your ablity to draw to them on implied odds. Also, once you have 3-4 cards of your suit on the board getting others without a weaker flush to pay you is difficult. Finally, in an aggressive pre-flop game where 1-2 other players see the flop when you have a good hand, the chance of the flush draw hitting is very low.

From a domination perspective I understand the rankings

Code:
Hand, dominated by, # of unique hands dominated by
AA, none, 0
KK, AA, 6 
QQ, AA KK, 12
AK, AA KK, 12
JJ, AA KK QQ, 18 
TT, AA KK QQ JJ, 24
99, AA KK QQ JJ TT, 30
88, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99, 36
AQ, AA KK QQ AK, 34
77, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88, 42

KQ, (AA) KK QQ AK AQ, (3 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 50 
AJ, AA (KK) (QQ) JJ AK AQ, (4 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 56
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Fnord
Old 12-26-2003, 07:30 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Looks more like a no limit ranking.

Personally, I find suites less valuable in no limit. The betting can quickly cut off your ablity to draw to them on implied odds. Also, once you have 3-4 cards of your suit on the board getting others without a weaker flush to pay you is difficult. Finally, in an aggressive pre-flop game where 1-2 other players see the flop when you have a good hand, the chance of the flush draw hitting is very low.

From a domination perspective I understand the rankings

Code:
Hand, dominated by, # of unique hands dominated by
AA, none, 0
KK, AA, 6 
QQ, AA KK, 12
AK, AA KK, 12
JJ, AA KK QQ, 18 
TT, AA KK QQ JJ, 24
99, AA KK QQ JJ TT, 30
88, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99, 36
AQ, AA KK QQ AK, 34
77, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88, 42

KQ, (AA) KK QQ AK AQ, (3 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 50 
AJ, AA (KK) (QQ) JJ AK AQ, (4 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 56
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Fnord
Old 12-26-2003, 07:30 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Looks more like a no limit ranking.

Personally, I find suites less valuable in no limit. The betting can quickly cut off your ablity to draw to them on implied odds. Also, once you have 3-4 cards of your suit on the board getting others without a weaker flush to pay you is difficult. Finally, in an aggressive pre-flop game where 1-2 other players see the flop when you have a good hand, the chance of the flush draw hitting is very low.

From a domination perspective I understand the rankings

Code:
Hand, dominated by, # of unique hands dominated by
AA, none, 0
KK, AA, 6 
QQ, AA KK, 12
AK, AA KK, 12
JJ, AA KK QQ, 18 
TT, AA KK QQ JJ, 24
99, AA KK QQ JJ TT, 30
88, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99, 36
AQ, AA KK QQ AK, 34
77, AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88, 42

KQ, (AA) KK QQ AK AQ, (3 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 50 
AJ, AA (KK) (QQ) JJ AK AQ, (4 * 6) + (2 * 16) = 56
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Eric
Old 12-26-2003, 10:44 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 Agreed, in a head-up situation AJ is dominated by AK and AQ which are both dealt 16 ways(plus all pairs Jacks or better) whereas a hand like 77 is only domintated by higher pairs which are dealt 6 ways each.

However, I think hands like AJ and KQ do better against multiple opponents than hands like 77. If multiple players stay involved for the flop then a hand like 77 will probably not win the pot unless another 7 comes on board.
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Eric
Old 12-26-2003, 10:44 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 Agreed, in a head-up situation AJ is dominated by AK and AQ which are both dealt 16 ways(plus all pairs Jacks or better) whereas a hand like 77 is only domintated by higher pairs which are dealt 6 ways each.

However, I think hands like AJ and KQ do better against multiple opponents than hands like 77. If multiple players stay involved for the flop then a hand like 77 will probably not win the pot unless another 7 comes on board.
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Eric
Old 12-26-2003, 10:44 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 Agreed, in a head-up situation AJ is dominated by AK and AQ which are both dealt 16 ways(plus all pairs Jacks or better) whereas a hand like 77 is only domintated by higher pairs which are dealt 6 ways each.

However, I think hands like AJ and KQ do better against multiple opponents than hands like 77. If multiple players stay involved for the flop then a hand like 77 will probably not win the pot unless another 7 comes on board.
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Eric
Old 12-26-2003, 10:44 PM #16 (permalink)  
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 Agreed, in a head-up situation AJ is dominated by AK and AQ which are both dealt 16 ways(plus all pairs Jacks or better) whereas a hand like 77 is only domintated by higher pairs which are dealt 6 ways each.

However, I think hands like AJ and KQ do better against multiple opponents than hands like 77. If multiple players stay involved for the flop then a hand like 77 will probably not win the pot unless another 7 comes on board.
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Eric
Old 12-26-2003, 10:44 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 Agreed, in a head-up situation AJ is dominated by AK and AQ which are both dealt 16 ways(plus all pairs Jacks or better) whereas a hand like 77 is only domintated by higher pairs which are dealt 6 ways each.

However, I think hands like AJ and KQ do better against multiple opponents than hands like 77. If multiple players stay involved for the flop then a hand like 77 will probably not win the pot unless another 7 comes on board.
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Eric
Old 12-26-2003, 10:44 PM #18 (permalink)  
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 Agreed, in a head-up situation AJ is dominated by AK and AQ which are both dealt 16 ways(plus all pairs Jacks or better) whereas a hand like 77 is only domintated by higher pairs which are dealt 6 ways each.

However, I think hands like AJ and KQ do better against multiple opponents than hands like 77. If multiple players stay involved for the flop then a hand like 77 will probably not win the pot unless another 7 comes on board.
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Fnord
Old 12-27-2003, 03:22 AM #19 (permalink)  
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My bad, KJ doesn't dominate AJ...

Yeah, there are 2 ways I like to play pocket pairs lower than JJ/TT in No Limit.

1) Raise aggressivly aiming for everyone to fold or get a heads up (hopefully they won't have a stronger pocket pair, otherwise you're toast), then fold if you think they hit.

2) Limp in and see if you hit. If you hit consider a trap or cash out, otherwise ditch unless you can get card(s) really cheap.

Which way to go depends on position, pre-flop table agressiveness and strength of the pair.
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Fnord
Old 12-27-2003, 03:22 AM #20 (permalink)  
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My bad, KJ doesn't dominate AJ...

Yeah, there are 2 ways I like to play pocket pairs lower than JJ/TT in No Limit.

1) Raise aggressivly aiming for everyone to fold or get a heads up (hopefully they won't have a stronger pocket pair, otherwise you're toast), then fold if you think they hit.

2) Limp in and see if you hit. If you hit consider a trap or cash out, otherwise ditch unless you can get card(s) really cheap.

Which way to go depends on position, pre-flop table agressiveness and strength of the pair.
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Fnord
Old 12-27-2003, 03:22 AM #21 (permalink)  
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My bad, KJ doesn't dominate AJ...

Yeah, there are 2 ways I like to play pocket pairs lower than JJ/TT in No Limit.

1) Raise aggressivly aiming for everyone to fold or get a heads up (hopefully they won't have a stronger pocket pair, otherwise you're toast), then fold if you think they hit.

2) Limp in and see if you hit. If you hit consider a trap or cash out, otherwise ditch unless you can get card(s) really cheap.

Which way to go depends on position, pre-flop table agressiveness and strength of the pair.
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Fnord
Old 12-27-2003, 03:22 AM #22 (permalink)  
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My bad, KJ doesn't dominate AJ...

Yeah, there are 2 ways I like to play pocket pairs lower than JJ/TT in No Limit.

1) Raise aggressivly aiming for everyone to fold or get a heads up (hopefully they won't have a stronger pocket pair, otherwise you're toast), then fold if you think they hit.

2) Limp in and see if you hit. If you hit consider a trap or cash out, otherwise ditch unless you can get card(s) really cheap.

Which way to go depends on position, pre-flop table agressiveness and strength of the pair.
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Fnord
Old 12-27-2003, 03:22 AM #23 (permalink)  
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My bad, KJ doesn't dominate AJ...

Yeah, there are 2 ways I like to play pocket pairs lower than JJ/TT in No Limit.

1) Raise aggressivly aiming for everyone to fold or get a heads up (hopefully they won't have a stronger pocket pair, otherwise you're toast), then fold if you think they hit.

2) Limp in and see if you hit. If you hit consider a trap or cash out, otherwise ditch unless you can get card(s) really cheap.

Which way to go depends on position, pre-flop table agressiveness and strength of the pair.
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Fnord
Old 12-27-2003, 03:22 AM #24 (permalink)  
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My bad, KJ doesn't dominate AJ...

Yeah, there are 2 ways I like to play pocket pairs lower than JJ/TT in No Limit.

1) Raise aggressivly aiming for everyone to fold or get a heads up (hopefully they won't have a stronger pocket pair, otherwise you're toast), then fold if you think they hit.

2) Limp in and see if you hit. If you hit consider a trap or cash out, otherwise ditch unless you can get card(s) really cheap.

Which way to go depends on position, pre-flop table agressiveness and strength of the pair.
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