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Pay-Off Wizard?

  
 
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Genitruc
Old 06-06-2007, 04:21 AM     Post subject: Pay-Off Wizard? #1 (permalink)  
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 I've just had an argument with a friend about being a pay-off wizard so I figured I'd post this and see what ppl think.

This isn't a particularly interesting hand, but it's definitely not trivial.

Reads : Villain ran at around 22/9/2 when table was full. Since the start of HU he's leaned towards passive play OOP. He's been leading the river a reasonable amount, enough to make me think he's bluffing a decent frequency, but nothing crazy. He's been getting the best of me so far.

I've been c-betting pretty aggressively (prob about 70%) and raising any 2 suited, Ax, connectors... Pretty standard for HU. I haven't shown down any crap yet.
** Game ID 1427246309 starting - 2007-06-05 22:44:11
** Donnchadh [Hold 'em] (1.00|2.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- Genitruc sitting in seat 3 with $240.65 [Dealer]
- Timman_ sitting in seat 4 with $369.56

Genitruc posted the small blind - $1.00
Timman_ posted the big blind - $2.00
** Dealing card to Genitruc:
Genitruc raised - $7.00
Timman_ called - $7.00

** Dealing the flop:
Timman_ checked
Genitruc bet - $14.00
Timman_ called - $14.00

** Dealing the turn:
Timman_ checked
Genitruc checked

** Dealing the river:
Timman_ bet - $21.00
Genitruc called $21.00
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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benny999
Old 06-06-2007, 04:57 AM #2 (permalink)  
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how often does he c/c your c-bet?

that river card sucks since it hits A5/A4/A2/A3/32. you beat 76, 86, 87 and mid pairs that are bluffing though.
it's prob at most a small mistake to call.
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bigspenda73
Old 06-06-2007, 05:33 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Bet the turn, no?
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Genitruc
Old 06-06-2007, 08:22 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Bet the turn, no?
some of the time, but not all of the time

i was actually trapping here
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 06-06-2007, 02:01 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 this is fine. I disagree that it's not trivial. Yes we bet the turn sometimes but we're definetely not folding when the best bluff card has come.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 06-06-2007, 02:02 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 meh you could fold river actually.
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Galapogos
Old 06-06-2007, 02:46 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 I probably pay it off, even if you're not good, at least now you have some insight into what hands he takes this line with. Though I seriously doubt his half pot bet is a steal here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 06-06-2007, 03:20 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 I fold. If you were c-betting air here (which is what it looks like), you just hit. I'm not sure if you're opponent is thinking like this but i think it's more likely than him thinking the A is a good bluff card.
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sauce123
Old 06-06-2007, 03:45 PM #9 (permalink)  
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i def pay it off and i def bet the turn
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pokerroomace
Old 06-06-2007, 10:41 PM #10 (permalink)  
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i think call river. i think checked turn isnt too bad - probs would have bet it myself though for about 1/2 to 2/3 pot.
he could easily be bluffing this river. it looks like you missed and if that's true and you don't have the A then he can pick up the pot. he can also get you to fold lower pairs. more often than not you don't have an A here. just because it's HU doesn't mean he automatically assumes you have an A.
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Genitruc
Old 06-07-2007, 03:51 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 villain had QJ

nh villain

I actually DO think it's a trivially easy call. My friend didn't.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Silly String
Old 06-07-2007, 02:30 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I like the check behind on the turn, and I call river. With your read, I don't see how you could fold river for $21.
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