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Fnord
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11-25-2006, 09:46 AM
Post subject: Nit, unraised pot, he wants to play for stacks.
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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BB is a tight passive Nit, I've yet to see him play a big pot without the goods.
I'm running like shit. Dropped over 2 buy-ins at the table, mostly without much of a hand.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Fnord ($207.05)
SB ($126.70)
BB ($355)
UTG ($116.70)
MP ($140.10)
CO ($222.15)
Preflop: Fnord is Button with 7 , Q.
UTG calls $2, 2 folds, Fnord calls $2, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: ($8) 5, 8, 4 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $8, UTG folds, Fnord raises to $24, SB folds, BB calls $16.
Turn: ($56) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets $40, BB raises to $329, Fnord tanks ($141 to call)
Meh, might be a stupid hh...
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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lol, ouch.
Honestly, I can never fold this but based on the description of the opponent, I'd expect to see a better flush a lot. The good news is that you're live unless his other card is the 6s...
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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UTG has to be really bad for me to play this preflop, and since BB is tight i would be riainsg it anyway. easy call on the turn, even against nits you should be winning here alot.
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apunisher
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 398
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easy call, 76 and lower flushes could play this exactly the same way, as well as top set possibly but probably not from this opponent.
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jo
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 166
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There's a discussion in the 2+2 magazine this month about this kind of situation, making the argument for checking the turn.
http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/c...chult1106.html
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Preflop call is questionable. I prefer to try to isolate bad limpers in these situations if I'm going to play the hand.
Assuming he will make this play with any flopped flush (not a bad assumption), and occasionally with sets and straights, you're a big favorite and should call.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Preflop call is questionable. I prefer to try to isolate bad limpers in these situations if I'm going to play the hand.
Assuming he will make this play with any flopped flush (not a bad assumption), and occasionally with sets and straights, you're a big favorite and should call.
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Even though our hand may still be too strong to fold, I think this is a very, very bad assumption. In fact, even as a player that plays a lot more agressively then most post-flop, making this play in a 4-way limped pot without the nuts or close to it seems really spewy for the BB. I think you vastly overestimate how often this is a set, straight, or even a small flush from some opponents. Key word there is some, but honestly, I would be very surprised to see anything but a flush here from anybody. Even from the BB, I think it's safe to weight it at the top of that range even, especially when you consider fnord's read on the guy.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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I thought this was interesting from a hand reading perspective.
Although this player is tight, his range here is a lot of 2 pair and smaller set hands along with perhaps a freak straight or set. If he limped and played like this, it would be a much tougher decision. That pretty much sold me that I was waaaaayyyyy ahead.
Then consider the line. Why get it in on 2 streets instead of 3? A nut flush will sometimes string me along.
Anyway, he had 84o for top pair up and my hand holds up.
Maybe he just didn't have much experience playing rags out of position?
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
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He has a wide range here of shoving worse hands, so you call. It's that simple.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
He has a wide range here of shoving worse hands, so you call. It's that simple.
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despite the results of the hand, I really disagree based on the description of the villain in the hand (or any player with a clue, for that matter).
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
He has a wide range here of shoving worse hands, so you call. It's that simple.
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despite the results of the hand, I really disagree based on the description of the villain in the hand (or any player with a clue, for that matter). |
He pushes worse flushes, sets, straights, etc way more than enough to call here. People don't fold flushes / sets almost ever. And his raise looks like one that wants to protect his hand. A weak passive nit probably plays the nut flush for a check call or something donkish.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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I think you're vastly over-estimating the range of a tight/passivish player in the BB that takes a bet/call, check/push line in a limped pot.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
I think you're vastly over-estimating the range of a tight/passivish player in the BB that takes a bet/call, check/push line in a limped pot.
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Am I? Do you really think he folds any flush? Remember tight passive players overvalue hands and with real monsters they love to slowplay, like a flopped nut flush or second nut flush. Tight/passive does not mean only stacks off with stone cold nuts, FYI. Folding here is a huge mistake, we're getting over 2-1 and have practically the nuts.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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lukie what are you talking about
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