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thizzSantaCruz
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12-25-2007, 01:06 AM
Post subject: nit donk I have no FE with an OESFD
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Villain runs 15/8 and has stacked off twice to me when he had an overpair. He is inst-calling any pushes with an over pair on any board.
50NL 100eff 6 players
UTG raises to 1.75
I call from the button with 6s6h
Villain raises from the bb to 5.75
UTG calls
I call
Flop 3s4s5s
Villain bets 9
UTG folds
Hero......
I have no fold equity here at all. The only hand he could lay down here is AK and I am not sure he 3bets it. I have a ton of outs so shoving is never bad. Do we still want to get all our money in here when the equity is the highest? Calling the bet and seeing if we hit seems kind of weak. Sorry if this is a stupid question I have logged a lot of hands the last couple of days and it seems if my brain is poker fried.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Andypandy
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Middle of Norway
Posts: 154
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If u r sure u have zero FE, u have to call and try to suck him out, and then fold the turn if he doesn't price u in...
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Larsmars: "I folded Aces today, I can't remember last time I did it, it must have been like half a year ago."
Andypandy: "Preflop??"
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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With that read you have to call, semi-bluffs only work when you have sufficient fold equity. Turn: if you miss, call again if he gives you odds, otherwise just lay it down.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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BigLRIP
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 194
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Gah, I honestly think I fold this. Like how confident would you feel stacking off on the Js
Edit: I guess i wouldn't mind seeing a turn and getting it in on the cards that make you a straight flush/straight/set.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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bare with me here this is just a thought that crossed my mind. if he stacks with an over pair on any board, lets say you hit your flush and he continues to bet hard, do you call/shove? if he indeed has an over pair, which is very likely, there is a 50% chance he has a spade right?
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Just shove to avoid confusion. Much of the time you're just barely ahead anyways (if he has 0 spades)
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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with 10 outs and some implied odds, I think you have equity to call flop, you do have position here.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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Yea, you have a straight flush draw not a flush and straight draw, a lot of your outs may be tainted if his overpair has a spade, that said, shoving ten good outs with a ton of maybe's are ok with me.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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I usually just shove here. I hate just calling and having a blank turn and getting priced out. I can see the argument for calling though.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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just shove im sure you have some FE here and you hardly need any.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EzDuzIt
just shove im sure you have some FE here and you hardly need any.
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but do i really? he snapp calls with TT and i dont suck out.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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if you have a read go with it. its easy for everyone here to reccomend shoving, but you had the read and should stick with it. It might be a fold if you think if your outs hit he will back off.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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IF he won't fold, I think shoving is the answer, not the other way around.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
IF he won't fold, I think shoving is the answer, not the other way around.
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but only for the reason that are implied odds might not be good if we do hit like mixchange said right?
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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You are a 3-2 favorite if he has no spades. You are a 2-1 dog if he has a spade on his overpair.
would villain call all in with no spades? I guess thats the question.
if he won't fold and we're behind, shoving sure does suck here. IMO, very read dependant situation.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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OP said villain stacks off with any overpair on any board. Not to mention, if villain will fold a non spade overpair, then we have FE. We still shove.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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yeah I spaced in my last post, yeah hes calling anyway. its a bit less likely he has a spade but with the odds and with the $ in the pot its kinda flipping. I guess this spot doesn't really matter much.
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