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Renton
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12-17-2006, 04:01 AM
Post subject: Nice spot to shove with the nuts?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Threebetter is a laggish tag who threebets lightly. Coldcaller is unknown.
PokerStars Game #7476782619: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/12/16 - 23:54:28 (ET)
Table 'Aenna' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Beyonder01 ($100 in chips)
Seat 2: grande_frere ($159.10 in chips)
Seat 3: speedynutt ($185.15 in chips)
Seat 4: Unreal_Zeal ($75.95 in chips)
Seat 5: nomoreaces ($63.65 in chips)
Seat 6: Renton555 ($100.40 in chips)
grande_frere: posts small blind $0.50
speedynutt: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Renton555 [Kc Ad]
Unreal_Zeal: folds
nomoreaces: folds
Renton555: raises $3 to $4
Beyonder01: raises $10 to $14
grande_frere: folds
speedynutt: calls $13
Renton555: raises $86.40 to $100.40 and is all-in
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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I wouldn't make a habit of it, but I think it's fine against a 3-bettor as you described especially with the extra money of the cold caller.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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totally standard these days
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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standard
+1
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
I wouldn't make a habit of it,
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Im pushing QQ+ AK here 100% of the time almost. Is this bad?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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If you're read is correct=good
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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I like it.
But what do you do if it's heads up in the same situation?
I find myself in this situation a lot with AK...and usually it ends up with me c/f'ing the flop...which is fine I guess against a nit, but what about against an opponent whom you described?
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
I like it.
But what do you do if it's heads up in the same situation?
I find myself in this situation a lot with AK...and usually it ends up with me c/f'ing the flop...which is fine I guess against a nit, but what about against an opponent whom you described?
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Vary between 4bet to 36$, 4bet push, c/r dry flops ai etc.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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seems relatively standard
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Nice gamble.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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I dont think this is bad per se. but I still dont really like it against an unknown cold caller. With a read that they cold-call a wide range out of the blinds then this is fine, but I dont know if we can just assume they do that. Also, if this is our standard line for QQ+, AK, I think we are giving up value against a lot of players. I will play those hands like this against fish, but against a solid regular we get more value IMO by not making such an overbet push because it is so readable.
So anyways, is this play bad? No, but I think you would make more playing it differently
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
Also, if this is our standard line for QQ+, AK, I think we are giving up value against a lot of players. I will play those hands like this against fish, but against a solid regular we get more value IMO by not making such an overbet push because it is so readable.
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Well, if we had AA, i think flat calling sucks. I don't want to see a threeway threebet flop out of position vs a lagg who has nearly any two cards. You could make an argument that its better to fourbet to like 55 or something, but thats going to get the same calls as a push does. A push is probably better for metagame, and we're also shoving on the threebetter as a bluff with hands like Axs (when the cold caller is out of the picture, obviously), and there are positive implications that come from that (we take the play away from him, as he can't 5bet, we frustrate him because our play looks irrational, etc).
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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I like it, and as a few have said before, good gamble, pretty standard, nh, etc, etc...
Not that it really matters because you made (what looks like) the correct decision, but how did it turn out?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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cold caller had AA obv
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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:UG makes the 'smelling a poopy diaper' face:
gross.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
Also, if this is our standard line for QQ+, AK, I think we are giving up value against a lot of players. I will play those hands like this against fish, but against a solid regular we get more value IMO by not making such an overbet push because it is so readable.
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Well, if we had AA, i think flat calling sucks. I don't want to see a threeway threebet flop out of position vs a lagg who has nearly any two cards. You could make an argument that its better to fourbet to like 55 or something, but thats going to get the same calls as a push does. A push is probably better for metagame, and we're also shoving on the threebetter as a bluff with hands like Axs (when the cold caller is out of the picture, obviously), and there are positive implications that come from that (we take the play away from him, as he can't 5bet, we frustrate him because our play looks irrational, etc). |
Why wouldnt we want a three way pot with AA _especially_ when he could have any two cards? I definitely think this play is +EV, the ev could drastically change based on the cold-caller though, but I still think its more +EV to take it to a flop. This is 100nl, the metagame factors just arent that important, especially against an unknown. Im not saying there arent good players at these stakes, but it just isnt something we really need to worry a ton about.
Also, how often are you 4bet bluff pushing with Axs?
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Harry
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 722
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I probably fold rather than push, but I might be a nit.
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PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Harry
I probably fold rather than push, but I might be a nit.
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I rather fold than call, neither are "bad" though. I personally still think calling here without a read is better than pushing. And yea, you are kind of nitty, haha, you also probably think I am a maniac.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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I think it's fine although I expect the cold-caller to have 1010/JJ and maybe even QQ sometimes... which will prob not fold and you get to race for stacks
but it s fine cuz there s dead money.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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btw cold-calling like the dood did with AA/KK is sexy a lot
it s so obvious, but ppl have a tough time not clicking the raise button
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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